address search and road names with refs
Hi all, if I got it right, the default style creates roads with names like (B101) Leipziger Strasse for this way http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/144257391 with name=Leipziger Straße and ref=B101 With the new --x-split-name-index option I will find this road when I search for "Leipziger", but when I know an address like "Leipziger Str. xxx, Freiberg" I have to select the right version of the street if the list shows also other entries like "Leipziger Strasse" (without the ref), means, I have to try the different versions until one shows a plausible result for the given number xxx. I wonder if this could be improved somehow? How do Garmin maps handle this? Gerd -- View this message in context: http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/address-search-and-road-names-with-refs-tp583... Sent from the Mkgmap Development mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Hi Yes I do see this as a problem for search. These names are from the early days when we were unable to have more than one label on a road. It should be the ref (with shield if appropriate) in the first name slot. Then the actual name in the second slot. (Perhaps the other way round as I cannot check at the moment). I know it is a big change but I think that would be best for the default style. On the other hand it shouldn't really cause search to fail if that is what is happening, so perhaps that can be improved. ..Steve On 18 March 2015 15:11:18 GMT+00:00, GerdP <gpetermann_muenchen@hotmail.com> wrote:
Hi all,
if I got it right, the default style creates roads with names like (B101) Leipziger Strasse for this way http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/144257391
with name=Leipziger Straße and ref=B101
With the new --x-split-name-index option I will find this road when I search for "Leipziger", but when I know an address like "Leipziger Str. xxx, Freiberg" I have to select the right version of the street if the list shows also other entries like "Leipziger Strasse" (without the ref), means, I have to try the different versions until one shows a plausible result for the given number xxx.
I wonder if this could be improved somehow? How do Garmin maps handle this?
Gerd
-- View this message in context: http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/address-search-and-road-names-with-refs-tp583... Sent from the Mkgmap Development mailing list archive at Nabble.com. _______________________________________________ mkgmap-dev mailing list mkgmap-dev@lists.mkgmap.org.uk http://www.mkgmap.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/mkgmap-dev
Hi Steve, thanks for the feedback. I found several cases were the address search in MapSource did not work as I'd like. Not sure if the device works like MapSource. The problem appears when a part of a road inside a town gets a name like B101 Leipziger Strasse and another one only Leipziger Strasse. If the first has numbers between 100 and 120 and the other from 1 to 99 and I am searching for address "Leipziger Strasse 117" in that town I type 117 in the number field, my town name in the city field and "Leipziger" in the street name field. As a result I will find both entries "B101 Leipziger Strasse" and "Leipziger Strasse" in the list of roads, and if I select "Leipziger Strasse" I will not be pointed to the address which is at "B101 Leipziger Strasse". With a number like 55 the problem occurs vice versa. If I have multiple roads with the equal name abc , I see just one entry in the list and the search will find the right road. My understanding is that the ref should not appear in the road name, but I have no idea if this is a problem in an index or not. Gerd Steve Ratcliffe wrote
Hi
Yes I do see this as a problem for search.
These names are from the early days when we were unable to have more than one label on a road.
It should be the ref (with shield if appropriate) in the first name slot. Then the actual name in the second slot. (Perhaps the other way round as I cannot check at the moment).
I know it is a big change but I think that would be best for the default style.
On the other hand it shouldn't really cause search to fail if that is what is happening, so perhaps that can be improved.
..Steve
On 18 March 2015 15:11:18 GMT+00:00, GerdP <
gpetermann_muenchen@
> wrote:
Hi all,
if I got it right, the default style creates roads with names like (B101) Leipziger Strasse for this way http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/144257391
with name=Leipziger Straße and ref=B101
With the new --x-split-name-index option I will find this road when I search for "Leipziger", but when I know an address like "Leipziger Str. xxx, Freiberg" I have to select the right version of the street if the list shows also other entries like "Leipziger Strasse" (without the ref), means, I have to try the different versions until one shows a plausible result for the given number xxx.
I wonder if this could be improved somehow? How do Garmin maps handle this?
Gerd
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Hi Gerd, there are two problems. First is if we should add road reference to road name. Second problem is conditional - if we add a reference, then should it be searchable? On my map I don't add reference to name. I put reference in second label if name exist and in first label if it doesn't. Merging both won't look good on some nuvis, where shield graphics is extended to a full name, see attached picture. This solution has a downside - only first label is visible on a map and road references aren't visible in cities, where street have names. For second problem I would prefer that road number was searchable, because this way you could find address as: B101, 117, Freiberg. Please note, that putting reference number to a second label also allows for finding this address, without multiplying results when searching for proper street name. I think choice of solution is quite arbitrary. Maybe we should gather some opinions, before deciding about default style. -- Best regards, Andrzej
Here's a comment that's not only US-centric but also Mass-centric. I'm specifically talking about my town but that is normal. The main road in my town is called "Great Road". It is also Massachusetts Route 117. There are 117 signs on it, and probably someplace there is a Great Road sign. Everybody local knows both names. When giving directions to non-locals only "117" is used. Addresses are always only using the road name, for example the Town Hall is "375 Great Road". Writing this as "375 Route 117" would get understood, but would be viewed as confused. Great Road shows up as Great Road with a SR117 shield (SR vs MA is a tagging issue irrelevant to this discussion), arising from name=Great Road ref=SR 117 The address tagging on the town hall says addr:street=Great Road and does not mention 117. The rest assumes there are no address tags with 117 in them. That's a long lead in, but * I think it's correct in this case that that the address tagging refers only to Great Road and not 117. * mkgmap should definitely not present the primary address name as Great Road (SR 117), even if the label for the way looks like that. * If one can search for "375 Route 117", but it doesn't show up if you don't search, that's fine. (Nominatim does this, but you have to get the route ref right. It then returns the address as Great Road.) * mkgmap should offer "Great Road" as a street in address search, and not 117. * both the 117 ref and the name should be in the find-street-by-name index * There should probably be some tagging scheme to determine if "Great Road" or "Route 117" should be considered the primary name to display/speak in navigation. Which one is right really depends on local culture and which signs are more prominent. But the style I'm using says e.g. "Great Road sir 117" for a lot of these roads, which is highly useful. In short, the ref for the road is part of the road's name, but not part of any addresses on the road. So mkgmap should only use the address:* data for addresses, and not merge in any refs from the way that is named by address:street. If someplace an address is "375 Route 117", then arguably the way should have a name="Route 117" in addition to ref, and the addr:street on the building should say "Route 117". So I guess the question is how addresses work in a bunch of other places. Do people consider using the route number equivalent and a completely ok thing to do?
Hi all, in Germany I've never seen or heard an address that uses the road ref. Within cities the roads all have a sign giving a name, the address is written as <street name> <house number> <zip code> <city name> In small hamlets, the address is written as something like <hamlet> <house number> <zip code> <nearby larger city> and you may not find any road named <hamlet> in it (means, no road name signs) Some OSM users are tagging that with the addr:place tag, some are adding a name=<hamlet> to all roads in the hamlet. For sure, nobody will use the ref here. In short: I don't want to see the ref when I am searching for an address. If possible, I want to see it and be able to search for it when searching for a road. It should also appear when the map is rendered. I have no idea if that requires changes in the java code, or in the default style, on in both. Gerd
Hi Gerd,
I don't want to see the ref when I am searching for an address. If possible, I want to see it and be able to search for it when searching for a road.
When creating search index, shield could be separated from street name and both elements added to search index independently.
It should also appear when the map is rendered.
This could be difficult. For a label consisting of a shield and a name, Mapsource shows road shield on map and street name under the cursor. But this doesn't work in nuvis, see the picture that I have attached to earlier post. -- Best regards, Andrzej
Hi Andrzej, hi Steve,
I don't want to see the ref when I am searching for an address. If possible, I want to see it and be able to search for it when searching for a road.
When creating search index, shield could be separated from street name and both elements added to search index independently.
Current status is this: For routable ways we have a method getName() which returns the value from tag mkgmap:label:1 , see MapRoad. java and MapElement.java. For the --housenumber option we use the value in tag mkgmap:street in preference to that in addr:street, if both are not set, the road is ignored. The default style has this rule in lines: highway=* & name=* { set mkgmap:street='${name}' } to set mkgmap:street to the value of tag name before any of the rules that add highway shields to the name like this one: highway=secondary | highway=tertiary {name '${ref|highway-symbol:oval} ${name}' | '${ref|highway-symbol:oval}' | '${name}'; addlabel '${name} (${ref})' } I don't know if we should try to use the mkgmap:street value for the index(es), or if we should try to change the rules so that they set mkgmap:label2 - 4 instead of concatenating the values in mkgmap:label:1 ? I am still busy the housenumber code, so I would be happy to hear that anybody is trying to code a patch for this problem. Gerd
El 20/03/15 a las 06:29, Gerd Petermann escribió:
in Germany I've never seen or heard an address that uses the road ref. Within cities the roads all have a sign giving a name, the address is written as
<street name> <house number> <zip code> <city name>
In short: I don't want to see the ref when I am searching for an address. If possible, I want to see it and be able to search for it when searching for a road. It should also appear when the map is rendered. Same in Spain
The same in Brazil, i.e.: <street name><house number> <zip code><city name><region name> regards, Alexandre 2015-03-20 13:23 GMT-03:00 Carlos Dávila <cdavilam@orangecorreo.es>:
El 20/03/15 a las 06:29, Gerd Petermann escribió:
in Germany I've never seen or heard an address that uses the road ref. Within cities the roads all have a sign giving a name, the address is written as
<street name> <house number> <zip code> <city name>
In short: I don't want to see the ref when I am searching for an address. If possible, I want to see it and be able to search for it when searching for a road. It should also appear when the map is rendered.
Same in Spain
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participants (7)
-
Alexandre Loss -
Andrzej Popowski -
Carlos Dávila -
Gerd Petermann -
GerdP
-
Greg Troxel -
Steve Ratcliffe