routing and cycleway=track
Hi there, quite a lot of cycleways around here alongside major roads (primary,secondary,trunk) are tagged as cycleway=track. In this case the Garmin device does not use this ways if "Avoid Highways" is enabled in routing option. The result is a very strange routing in these places. Would it be possible to generate fake cycleways in this cases simular to what --make-opposite-cycleways is doing? As I'm already asking for cycle routing here. Is it known to the developers of mkgmap what the option "Avoid unpaved roads" is actually doing? Looks like this option does not have any effect with current mkgmap generated maps. Is this just a limitation to certain types of roads or is this an additional per way flag which could be mapped in a way that routing does actually avoid tracks of tracktype >grade1? Sven -- The main thing to note is that when you choose open source you don't get a Windows operating system. (from http://www.dell.com/ubuntu) /me is giggls@ircnet, http://sven.gegg.us/ on the Web
Hi Sven,
quite a lot of cycleways around here alongside major roads (primary,secondary,trunk) are tagged as cycleway=track. In this case the Garmin device does not use this ways if "Avoid Highways" is enabled in routing option. The result is a very strange routing in these places.
Would it be possible to generate fake cycleways in this cases simular to what --make-opposite-cycleways is doing?
Should be easy, I will look at that.
As I'm already asking for cycle routing here. Is it known to the developers of mkgmap what the option "Avoid unpaved roads" is actually doing?
Looks like this option does not have any effect with current mkgmap generated maps. Is this just a limitation to certain types of roads or is this an additional per way flag which could be mapped in a way that routing does actually avoid tracks of tracktype >grade1?
At this time, we don't know how to tell the Garmin that a road is unpaved. I have experimented by setting various bits in the per-road data but none, so far, have had the desired effect. It would be great to get that working. Cheers, Mark
Here's a question: when you have a cycleway lane/track, are bicycles prohibited from using the road or can they use the road if they wish to? I wonder if when we generate a cycleway, we should be adding a bicycle=no to the original way? Cheers, Mark
Mark Burton <markb@ordern.com> wrote:
Here's a question: when you have a cycleway lane/track, are bicycles prohibited from using the road or can they use the road if they wish to?
I suppose that this is different in different countries. In Germany there is a term called "Radwegebenutzungspflicht" which means that you are required to use a cycleway if there is a traffic sign like this: http://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Datei:Zeichen_237.svg There are some cases with cycleways not marked by this sign, but this is not the norm.
I wonder if when we generate a cycleway, we should be adding a bicycle=no to the original way?
As german law is concerned this would be the way to go. It may however not be that important, because I don't care which way the Garmin actually uses as they are on the same place anyway. Sven -- /* Fuck me gently with a chainsaw... */ (David S. Miller in /usr/src/linux/arch/sparc/kernel/ptrace.c) /me is giggls@ircnet, http://sven.gegg.us/ on the Web
Hi Sven,
Mark Burton <markb@ordern.com> wrote:
Here's a question: when you have a cycleway lane/track, are bicycles prohibited from using the road or can they use the road if they wish to?
I suppose that this is different in different countries. In Germany there is a term called "Radwegebenutzungspflicht" which means that you are required to use a cycleway if there is a traffic sign like this: http://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Datei:Zeichen_237.svg
There are some cases with cycleways not marked by this sign, but this is not the norm.
I wonder if when we generate a cycleway, we should be adding a bicycle=no to the original way?
As german law is concerned this would be the way to go. It may however not be that important, because I don't care which way the Garmin actually uses as they are on the same place anyway.
Thanks a lot for that info. I agree that it doesn't really matter which way gets used as they share the same nodes but if you take away bicycle access from the road, the gps will tell you to route via "Foo (cycleway)" rather than "Foo". It seems to me that would be more consistent and at least in some countries it would agree with what is the normal behaviour. I'm tempted to add: if(currentWay.getTag("bicycle") == null) currentWay.addTag("bicycle", "no"); so that if the original way doesn't already have the bicycle routing defined, it will be disallowed. Cheers, Mark
Mark Burton <markb@ordern.com> wrote:
so that if the original way doesn't already have the bicycle routing defined, it will be disallowed.
Ah, nice! There is another thing I found looking at the code. As far as left and right tags are concerned one should create a one-way cycleway only. right: cycleway with oneway alongside the original way left: cycleway with oneway in opposite direction of the original way *argh* while thinking about this it gets more complicated: The side of the road where you need to drive will get important in this case! The above example is only valid for countries where you drive on the right :( I did not find a tagging example where one-side cycleways are allowed to be used either way. I would suppose they should be tagged cycleway=track To explain this (also a german rule). One-sided cycleways are usually permitted to be used in one direction only (the driving side) if the traffic signs are not explicitly positioned to be readable from both directions. I conclude that this left/right stuff is flawed, this should rather be something like "direction" and "opposite direction" to make it independent from country specific driving directions. Finally I think we should not consider these tags for now. Sven -- "We just typed make" (Stephen Lambrigh, Director of Server Product Marketing at Informix about porting their Database to Linux) /me is giggls@ircnet, http://sven.gegg.us/ on the Web
Hi Sven,
so that if the original way doesn't already have the bicycle routing defined, it will be disallowed.
Ah, nice!
I have put out a new patch that does that.
There is another thing I found looking at the code.
As far as left and right tags are concerned one should create a one-way cycleway only.
right: cycleway with oneway alongside the original way left: cycleway with oneway in opposite direction of the original way
*argh* while thinking about this it gets more complicated:
The side of the road where you need to drive will get important in this case! The above example is only valid for countries where you drive on the right :(
Most people do drive on the right, surely that's good enough!
I did not find a tagging example where one-side cycleways are allowed to be used either way. I would suppose they should be tagged cycleway=track
To explain this (also a german rule). One-sided cycleways are usually permitted to be used in one direction only (the driving side) if the traffic signs are not explicitly positioned to be readable from both directions.
That's a subtlety that we can't really cope with.
I conclude that this left/right stuff is flawed, this should rather be something like "direction" and "opposite direction" to make it independent from country specific driving directions.
Perhaps you should point that out to those who are proposing these new tag values.
Finally I think we should not consider these tags for now.
Well, the code will still recognise left/right/both as well as track/lane and they all do the same thing. Cheers, Mark
Mark Burton schreef:
if(currentWay.getTag("bicycle") == null) currentWay.addTag("bicycle", "no");
so that if the original way doesn't already have the bicycle routing defined, it will be disallowed.
In the Netherlands that would be right, too: the bicycle-paths are mandatory. My feeling is that the above code would generally be a good idea. Best regards, Valentijn
participants (3)
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Mark Burton -
Sven Geggus -
Valentijn Sessink