A fellow mapper complained that some highways carry a 5-digit ref on the mkgmap-produced map, even though the ref is nowhere to be seen on street signs. OK, mkgmap cannot possibly know that, but I was wondering if we could split this rule in the default style: highway=* {name '${ref} ${name}' | '${ref}' | '${name}' } so that we would assign '${ref} ${name}' only to highway=tertiary, and assign either $name or $ref to lesser roads: highway=tertiary {name '${ref} ${name}' | '${ref}' | '${name}' } highway=* {name '${name}' | '${ref}' } For example, a railway=platform that is also tagged as highway=footway would continue to carry the platform $ref, provided that the way is not named. Would anyone object to this change? Does anyone need to see both $name and $ref on highways lesser than tertiary? Best regards, Marko
Marko Mäkelä (marko.makela@iki.fi) wrote:
A fellow mapper complained that some highways carry a 5-digit ref on the mkgmap-produced map, even though the ref is nowhere to be seen on street signs. OK, mkgmap cannot possibly know that, but I was wondering if we could split this rule in the default style:
highway=* {name '${ref} ${name}' | '${ref}' | '${name}' }
so that we would assign '${ref} ${name}' only to highway=tertiary, and assign either $name or $ref to lesser roads:
highway=tertiary {name '${ref} ${name}' | '${ref}' | '${name}' } highway=* {name '${name}' | '${ref}' }
For example, a railway=platform that is also tagged as highway=footway would continue to carry the platform $ref, provided that the way is not named.
Would anyone object to this change? Does anyone need to see both $name and $ref on highways lesser than tertiary?
Best regards,
Marko Sounds fine to me: in my style I only use ref for down to the secondary classification...these things are, to an extent, region specific (i.e. out here only motorway, trunk and primary/secondary roads have refs, and even then not all of them do, in fact most of them don't).
-- Charlie
Marko Mäkelä <marko.makela@iki.fi> writes:
A fellow mapper complained that some highways carry a 5-digit ref on the mkgmap-produced map, even though the ref is nowhere to be seen on street signs. OK, mkgmap cannot possibly know that, but I was wondering if we could split this rule in the default style:
highway=* {name '${ref} ${name}' | '${ref}' | '${name}' }
so that we would assign '${ref} ${name}' only to highway=tertiary, and assign either $name or $ref to lesser roads:
highway=tertiary {name '${ref} ${name}' | '${ref}' | '${name}' } highway=* {name '${name}' | '${ref}' }
For example, a railway=platform that is also tagged as highway=footway would continue to carry the platform $ref, provided that the way is not named.
Would anyone object to this change? Does anyone need to see both $name and $ref on highways lesser than tertiary?
I don't follow how your patch preserves the old behavior on secondary/primary/motorway. I'm assuming that there are some roads that have reference numbers in county road maintenance databases, but they aren't posted and only serious road nerds know about them. That's not true in my state, or if so they are really not well known. I have been in Virginia and seen 4-digit route numbers in use (in directions given to me, and on signs). The roads were probably tertiary. I don't object to your change, but this feels like a shortcut rather than the right behavior. The route reference should show up if it's useful to the user, which is a cartographic decision. We have a vector database, but it makes sense to encode there where a route reference is user-facing or merely administrative. That's not rendering per se, but a fact about the world that's legitimate to tag. But, it's harder.
On Thu, Apr 07, 2011 at 07:41:56AM -0400, Greg Troxel wrote:
I don't follow how your patch preserves the old behavior on secondary/primary/motorway.
For them, the name is set earlier, using specific rules that add the Garmin control codes for the oval and box symbols.
I'm assuming that there are some roads that have reference numbers in county road maintenance databases, but they aren't posted and only serious road nerds know about them. That's not true in my state, or if so they are really not well known.
I have been in Virginia and seen 4-digit route numbers in use (in directions given to me, and on signs). The roads were probably tertiary.
Same here: at most 4-digit road numbers are usually posted, and I would consider them tertiary or secondary roads. Many tertiary roads (especially in cities) do not have any ref posted on road signs. Someone on the Finnish forum posted that highway ramps have 6-digit numbers. :-) That was in response to my comment that someone had apparently copied the motorway_exit node ref to the exit ramp way.
I don't object to your change, but this feels like a shortcut rather than the right behavior. The route reference should show up if it's useful to the user, which is a cartographic decision. We have a vector database, but it makes sense to encode there where a route reference is user-facing or merely administrative. That's not rendering per se, but a fact about the world that's legitimate to tag. But, it's harder.
It may be useful for road nerds to have the official 5-digit or 6-digit refs for ramps or cycleways in the database, but I do not think that they can be useful for a Garmin map user. A road nerd user can always tweak the mkgmap style. :-) My patch only affects the case when a minor road carries both a name and a ref. In that case, we would only display the name, not the ref. Marko
Marko Mäkelä <marko.makela@iki.fi> writes:
It may be useful for road nerds to have the official 5-digit or 6-digit refs for ramps or cycleways in the database, but I do not think that they can be useful for a Garmin map user. A road nerd user can always tweak the mkgmap style. :-)
I agree that's true when those minor refs are not used in the community. That may be near universal, but my point was that whether they are useful is a fact about a region, not something that can be 100% safely broadly assumed. A broad assumption that is 99.99% right is certainly progress, and I really don't mean to object - just to point out the non-universality. (I would put the percentage your assumption is right at at least 99.9%+.)
My patch only affects the case when a minor road carries both a name and a ref. In that case, we would only display the name, not the ref.
That eases any concern, too.
On Thu, Apr 07, 2011 at 09:28:28AM -0400, Greg Troxel wrote:
That may be near universal, but my point was that whether they are useful is a fact about a region, not something that can be 100% safely broadly assumed.
Sure, region or religion. :-) That was why I wanted to get feedback on this change. Marko
On Wed, Apr 06, 2011 at 10:25:27PM +0300, Marko Mäkelä wrote:
Would anyone object to this change? Does anyone need to see both $name and $ref on highways lesser than tertiary?
I made the change in r1909. It also adds an oval symbol around the highway=tertiary ref, just like for highway=secondary. Marko
participants (3)
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charlie＠cferrero.net -
Greg Troxel -
Marko Mäkelä