Commit: r1418: Bus and rail stops with a lit shelter.
Version 1418 was commited by marko on 2009-12-07 07:17:50 +0000 (Mon, 07 Dec 2009) Bus and rail stops with a lit shelter.
Hi all, On Mon, Dec 07, 2009 at 07:17:50AM +0000, svn commit wrote:
Version 1418 was commited by marko on 2009-12-07 07:17:50 +0000 (Mon, 07 Dec 2009)
Bus and rail stops with a lit shelter.
This is my first direct commit to the mkgmap source repository. Steve returned from vacation and granted me commit access to the mkgmap svn repository. I will try to be somewhat conservative with changes to the default style. I think that the default style should work with all devices and without a TYP file. Later on, if we include TYP files in mkgmap styles, we could come up with a little fancier style. Even there, I would not use tricks that can considerably slow down the map display, such as duplicating ways to multiple layers for additional line styles. In the short term, I will test the amenity=embassy patch that was posted some weeks ago. I would also like to commit the following, to display speed bumps, humps and chicanes as white circles on the road at zoom levels 120m or closer: +traffic_calming=* [0x6614 resolution 21] This may be a little misleading, because the same code is used for natural=rock. Besides, the Finnish style of Garmin displays it as "kari", which is the word for an underwater rock, something that marine users need to worry about. If nobody objects to the traffic_calming change, I shall commit it tomorrow. Best regards, Marko
Marko Mäkelä wrote:
Hi all,
On Mon, Dec 07, 2009 at 07:17:50AM +0000, svn commit wrote:
Version 1418 was commited by marko on 2009-12-07 07:17:50 +0000 (Mon, 07 Dec 2009)
Bus and rail stops with a lit shelter.
This is my first direct commit to the mkgmap source repository. Steve returned from vacation and granted me commit access to the mkgmap svn repository.
I will try to be somewhat conservative with changes to the default style. I think that the default style should work with all devices and without a TYP file. Later on, if we include TYP files in mkgmap styles, we could come up with a little fancier style. Even there, I would not use tricks that can considerably slow down the map display, such as duplicating ways to multiple layers for additional line styles.
Is the slow-down really that bad? I have a fairly complicated map which uses TYP files to define a lot of additional polygons and overlays and my GPS can update the screen no problem even when travelling in a car at 70 mph. For pedestrians or cyclists there would be no problem whatsoever. Perhaps older GPS units have much slower CPUs?
In the short term, I will test the amenity=embassy patch that was posted some weeks ago. I would also like to commit the following, to display speed bumps, humps and chicanes as white circles on the road at zoom levels 120m or closer:
+traffic_calming=* [0x6614 resolution 21]
This may be a little misleading, because the same code is used for natural=rock. Besides, the Finnish style of Garmin displays it as "kari", which is the word for an underwater rock, something that marine users need to worry about.
If nobody objects to the traffic_calming change, I shall commit it tomorrow.
Best regards,
Marko ________________________
I'm in two minds about the traffic calming patch. It's of no particular use for pedestrians, and will just clog up the map. And whilst it would be useful for road users, so would traffic signals, which aren't currently showing up in the default style (or at least, they weren't last time I checked). This is why I think we should have a default style repository - one for cyclists, one for pedestrians and one for motorists. Then an additional repository where anyone can contribute their own styles/TYP files, so that the community can learn what tricks, display customisations etc are possible. :) Charlie
Hi Charlie,
In the short term, I will test the amenity=embassy patch that was posted some weeks ago. I would also like to commit the following, to display speed bumps, humps and chicanes as white circles on the road at zoom levels 120m or closer:
+traffic_calming=* [0x6614 resolution 21]
This may be a little misleading, because the same code is used for natural=rock. Besides, the Finnish style of Garmin displays it as "kari", which is the word for an underwater rock, something that marine users need to worry about.
If nobody objects to the traffic_calming change, I shall commit it tomorrow.
Best regards,
Marko ________________________
I'm in two minds about the traffic calming patch. It's of no particular use for pedestrians, and will just clog up the map. And whilst it would be useful for road users, so would traffic signals, which aren't currently showing up in the default style (or at least, they weren't last time I checked).
This is why I think we should have a default style repository - one for cyclists, one for pedestrians and one for motorists.
You are right, while the bumps are interesting to wheel-based vehicles (motored or not), pedestrians usually won't care about them. (Side note: Pedestrians could at most see traffic_calming=* as an indicator of a safer street, or perhaps as a warning sign of aggressive drivers who have made the bumps necessary in the first place and are still not paying attention to anything else than the speed bumps. Today's local paper reported that a car yielded a speed bump to the footway and overran a 14-year-old boy who was walking to the opposite direction, and escaped the scene. He must have been speeding quite a bit on the maxspeed=30 or 40 highway=residential road.)
Then an additional repository where anyone can contribute their own styles/TYP files, so that the community can learn what tricks, display customisations etc are possible.
Makes sense. I think that there should be some include mechanism, so that the common defaults can be pulled to derived styles by reference. The hierarchy could be something like this: default + pedestrian (on foot) + bus routes + vehicle + pedestrian (rollerskates, skateboards) + bicycle + mountain bikes + touring bikes (omit ways with mtb:scale) + racing bikes (omit all unpaved roads from the map) + mopeds (omit cycleways without moped=yes) + motorcycles and cars + hgv I am not suggesting that we should have all these styles by default. I would start it small, with two or three maps (for motor vehicles, touring bicycles and pedestrians). I think that it is a worthwhile goal to make an all-purpose map. I have used my Edge 705 and the map with default mkgmap style for pedestrian and car navigation, even though the device is designed for bicycle use. Marko
On 07.12.2009 08:37, Marko Mäkelä wrote:
Hi all,
On Mon, Dec 07, 2009 at 07:17:50AM +0000, svn commit wrote:
Version 1418 was commited by marko on 2009-12-07 07:17:50 +0000 (Mon, 07 Dec 2009)
Bus and rail stops with a lit shelter.
This is my first direct commit to the mkgmap source repository. Steve returned from vacation and granted me commit access to the mkgmap svn repository.
I will try to be somewhat conservative with changes to the default style. I think that the default style should work with all devices and without a TYP file. Later on, if we include TYP files in mkgmap styles, we could come up with a little fancier style. Even there, I would not use tricks that can considerably slow down the map display, such as duplicating ways to multiple layers for additional line styles.
-- only information that is shown slows down the display. So duplicating without style-file will slow down the display speed. However the default style is anyhow really overloaded. The first thing to do is to put highway exits up to 18 or 19. Then I would look to increase some other road types by 1-3.
In the short term, I will test the amenity=embassy patch that was posted some weeks ago. I would also like to commit the following, to display speed bumps, humps and chicanes as white circles on the road at zoom levels 120m or closer:
+traffic_calming=* [0x6614 resolution 21]
Such thinkgs have nothing to do in default style IMHO as they are useless for non car users. Especially once widespread mapped resolution 21 is too early. Not before 24 I would put things like traffic_lights and their like. However all of this only really works well with typfiles. You should tryout the default style drawing speed in Germany or the Netherlands - other places detail level will sometimes catch up, and so to say - less is more. I a country is 100% street and waymapped, then the current style is far too overloaded in low resolutions.
This may be a little misleading, because the same code is used for natural=rock. Besides, the Finnish style of Garmin displays it as "kari", which is the word for an underwater rock, something that marine users need to worry about.
If nobody objects to the traffic_calming change, I shall commit it tomorrow.
Best regards,
Marko _______________________________________________ mkgmap-dev mailing list mkgmap-dev@lists.mkgmap.org.uk http://www.mkgmap.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/mkgmap-dev
Hi Felix,
You should tryout the default style drawing speed in Germany or the Netherlands - other places detail level will sometimes catch up, and so to say - less is more. I a country is 100% street and waymapped, then the current style is far too overloaded in low resolutions.
Can you post a couple of sample pics of what you find overloaded and what it should look like? Drawing the map of Helsinki area is taking several seconds at low resolutions, and I agree that the minimum resolutions of some map features could be bumped up a little. My area (25 km north from Helsinki) has almost full coverage of the public road network. Only some cycleways, paths, driveways and alleys are missing, and I have been adding those. Helsinki is very well mapped: you can easily run out of memory in JOSM. :-) I see that http://download.geofabrik.de/osm/europe/germany/ has per-state planet extracts. Do you think that Hamburg or Schleswig-Holstein would serve as good examples? Or perhaps Berlin? Those are the areas of Germany that I am most familiar with. Marko
On 07.12.2009 11:28, Marko Mäkelä wrote:
Hi Felix,
You should tryout the default style drawing speed in Germany or the Netherlands - other places detail level will sometimes catch up, and so to say - less is more. I a country is 100% street and waymapped, then the current style is far too overloaded in low resolutions.
The worst is not the layout itself (the highway exits are the best example), but the time it takes to render with for me no visible advantage. Overload is really bad. Rendering Europe as a whole and looking at West Germany/BeNeLux area you will directly understand. I had posted a patch a few days ago on the list for better routing - have a look at it and imlement the resolution changes - and maybe some others. Without duplicating the roads (as without typfile this will slow down the map, with typfile one could achieve no slowdown via invisible lines, as invisible line need no time for map drawing). Can you post a couple of sample pics of what you find overloaded and what it should look like? Drawing the map of Helsinki area is taking several seconds at low resolutions, and I agree that the minimum resolutions of some map features could be bumped up a little.
My area (25 km north from Helsinki) has almost full coverage of the public road network. Only some cycleways, paths, driveways and alleys are missing, and I have been adding those. Helsinki is very well mapped: you can easily run out of memory in JOSM. :-)
I see that http://download.geofabrik.de/osm/europe/germany/ has per-state planet extracts. Do you think that Hamburg or Schleswig-Holstein would serve as good examples? Or perhaps Berlin? Those are the areas of Germany that I am most familiar with.
No you will only really grasp the problems when you render a big area. If you have problems with Memory limitations try Nordrhein-Westfalen, this is probably the most densely mapped larger area worldwide. Scandinavian countries are in general not so dense in information - due to low population per area.
Marko _______________________________________________ mkgmap-dev mailing list mkgmap-dev@lists.mkgmap.org.uk http://www.mkgmap.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/mkgmap-dev
Hi Does anybody have hints on how to make an overview map that is not blank, perhaps using other tools? Would it be possible with mkgmap using a custom style? Thanks Garvan
Felix Hartmann escribió:
On 07.12.2009 08:37, Marko Mäkelä wrote:
Hi all,
On Mon, Dec 07, 2009 at 07:17:50AM +0000, svn commit wrote:
Version 1418 was commited by marko on 2009-12-07 07:17:50 +0000 (Mon, 07 Dec 2009)
Bus and rail stops with a lit shelter.
This is my first direct commit to the mkgmap source repository. Steve returned from vacation and granted me commit access to the mkgmap svn repository.
I will try to be somewhat conservative with changes to the default style. I think that the default style should work with all devices and without a TYP file. Later on, if we include TYP files in mkgmap styles, we could come up with a little fancier style. Even there, I would not use tricks that can considerably slow down the map display, such as duplicating ways to multiple layers for additional line styles.
-- only information that is shown slows down the display. So duplicating without style-file will slow down the display speed. However the default style is anyhow really overloaded. The first thing to do is to put highway exits up to 18 or 19. Then I would look to increase some other road types by 1-3.
I've been using 18 for motorway exits for a long time and I find it much more convenient than current value in default style. I would also increase resolution for boundary=administrative with something like: boundary=administrative & admin_level<3 [0x1c resolution 18] boundary=administrative & admin_level<5 [0x1c resolution 19] boundary=administrative & admin_level<7 [0x1c resolution 20] boundary=administrative & admin_level<9 [0x1c resolution 21] (not tested though)
In the short term, I will test the amenity=embassy patch that was posted some weeks ago. I would also like to commit the following, to display speed bumps, humps and chicanes as white circles on the road at zoom levels 120m or closer:
+traffic_calming=* [0x6614 resolution 21]
Such thinkgs have nothing to do in default style IMHO as they are useless for non car users. Especially once widespread mapped resolution 21 is too early. Not before 24 I would put things like traffic_lights and their like. However all of this only really works well with typfiles.
You should tryout the default style drawing speed in Germany or the Netherlands - other places detail level will sometimes catch up, and so to say - less is more. I a country is 100% street and waymapped, then the current style is far too overloaded in low resolutions.
This may be a little misleading, because the same code is used for natural=rock. Besides, the Finnish style of Garmin displays it as "kari", which is the word for an underwater rock, something that marine users need to worry about.
If nobody objects to the traffic_calming change, I shall commit it tomorrow.
Best regards,
Marko
On Wed, Dec 09, 2009 at 11:19:32PM +0100, Carlos Dávila wrote:
I've been using 18 for motorway exits for a long time and I find it much more convenient than current value in default style.
Now it is 20.
I would also increase resolution for boundary=administrative with something like: boundary=administrative & admin_level<3 [0x1c resolution 18] boundary=administrative & admin_level<5 [0x1c resolution 19] boundary=administrative & admin_level<7 [0x1c resolution 20] boundary=administrative & admin_level<9 [0x1c resolution 21] (not tested though)
I added a fallback for boundary=administrative without admin_level (or when admin_level>=9), at resolution 22. I also added a name based on a patch that Toby Speight posted a long time ago. I could not test it yet, but I added left:city, right:city, left:city:*, right:city:* to the borders of my home city, for * in fi and sv. That reminds me, some day I have to check if there is a suitable mkgmap selection option for overriding left:city and friends with, say, *:sv, to generate a Swedish-language map of Finland. I suspect that there is not. Other fields could make use of a language suffix too, e.g., addr:street:fi, addr:street:sv, addr:city:fi, addr:city:sv. Are there any Belgian or Swiss users listening? With the resolution changes, the wider zoom levels look a bit sparse (even sparser than the base map), but I did not play with the detail level settings on the GPS receiver yet. Best regards, Marko
participants (6)
-
Carlos Dávila -
Charlie Ferrero -
Felix Hartmann -
Garvan & maew -
Marko Mäkelä -
svn commit