Hi all, I've created two different patches, both treat surface=cobblestone as paved. The major difference between v1 and v2 is in the handling of possibly conflicting attributes. For example, I found quite a lot of ways with highway=track, surface=paved , tracktype=3 in my hometown area. With v1 and also with unpatched default style this will be treated as unpaved, with v2 it is paved. The logic in v2 is that we first find surface tags which say "road is paved" and for those roads we will never set mkgmap:unpaved=1. Which one would you prefer? Gerd
I prefer v1, some remarks: Please add paving_stones:30 (6012 cases) I would suggest to set smoothness ~ '.*(very_bad|horrible|impassable)' and give smoothness=bad a road_speed penalty. See https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=57179 https://github.com/ligfietser/mkgmap-style-sheets/commit/1950f88900baaff405b... ________________________________ Hi all, I've created two different patches, both treat surface=cobblestone as paved. The major difference between v1 and v2 is in the handling of possibly conflicting attributes. For example, I found quite a lot of ways with highway=track, surface=paved , tracktype=3 in my hometown area. With v1 and also with unpatched default style this will be treated as unpaved, with v2 it is paved. The logic in v2 is that we first find surface tags which say "road is paved" and for those roads we will never set mkgmap:unpaved=1. Which one would you prefer? Gerd
On Thu, Feb 9, 2017 at 1:26 AM, lig fietser <ligfietser@hotmail.com> wrote: I would suggest to set smoothness ~ '.*(very_bad|horrible|impassable)' and
give smoothness=bad a road_speed penalty.
+1 That's what I did in my styles. It's a useful compromise. -- Dave Swarthout Homer, Alaska Chiang Mai, Thailand Travel Blog at http://dswarthout.blogspot.com
The thread suggest different changes. The last one is this: highway=* & mkgmap:unpaved=0 & smoothness ~ '.*(bad|horrible|impassable)' { add mkgmap:road-speed = '-2' } I think this will not work as there is no rule to set mkgmap:unpaved=0. Did you mean mkgmap:unpaved!=1 instead? Gerd ________________________________________ Von: mkgmap-dev <mkgmap-dev-bounces@lists.mkgmap.org.uk> im Auftrag von lig fietser <ligfietser@hotmail.com> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 8. Februar 2017 19:26:52 An: mkgmap-dev@lists.mkgmap.org.uk Betreff: Re: [mkgmap-dev] [Patch] unpaved roads I prefer v1, some remarks: Please add paving_stones:30 (6012 cases) I would suggest to set smoothness ~ '.*(very_bad|horrible|impassable)' and give smoothness=bad a road_speed penalty. See https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=57179 https://github.com/ligfietser/mkgmap-style-sheets/commit/1950f88900baaff405b... ________________________________ Hi all, I've created two different patches, both treat surface=cobblestone as paved. The major difference between v1 and v2 is in the handling of possibly conflicting attributes. For example, I found quite a lot of ways with highway=track, surface=paved , tracktype=3 in my hometown area. With v1 and also with unpatched default style this will be treated as unpaved, with v2 it is paved. The logic in v2 is that we first find surface tags which say "road is paved" and for those roads we will never set mkgmap:unpaved=1. Which one would you prefer? Gerd
Yes, thats what I intended. Thanks for correcting this Gerd. ________________________________ Van: mkgmap-dev <mkgmap-dev-bounces@lists.mkgmap.org.uk> namens Gerd Petermann <GPetermann_muenchen@hotmail.com> Verzonden: woensdag 8 februari 2017 23:10:41 Aan: Development list for mkgmap Onderwerp: Re: [mkgmap-dev] [Patch] unpaved roads The thread suggest different changes. The last one is this: highway=* & mkgmap:unpaved=0 & smoothness ~ '.*(bad|horrible|impassable)' { add mkgmap:road-speed = '-2' } I think this will not work as there is no rule to set mkgmap:unpaved=0. Did you mean mkgmap:unpaved!=1 instead? Gerd ________________________________________ Von: mkgmap-dev <mkgmap-dev-bounces@lists.mkgmap.org.uk> im Auftrag von lig fietser <ligfietser@hotmail.com> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 8. Februar 2017 19:26:52 An: mkgmap-dev@lists.mkgmap.org.uk Betreff: Re: [mkgmap-dev] [Patch] unpaved roads I prefer v1, some remarks: Please add paving_stones:30 (6012 cases) I would suggest to set smoothness ~ '.*(very_bad|horrible|impassable)' and give smoothness=bad a road_speed penalty. See https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=57179 https://github.com/ligfietser/mkgmap-style-sheets/commit/1950f88900baaff405b... ________________________________ Hi all, I've created two different patches, both treat surface=cobblestone as paved. The major difference between v1 and v2 is in the handling of possibly conflicting attributes. For example, I found quite a lot of ways with highway=track, surface=paved , tracktype=3 in my hometown area. With v1 and also with unpatched default style this will be treated as unpaved, with v2 it is paved. The logic in v2 is that we first find surface tags which say "road is paved" and for those roads we will never set mkgmap:unpaved=1. Which one would you prefer? Gerd _______________________________________________ mkgmap-dev mailing list mkgmap-dev@lists.mkgmap.org.uk http://www.mkgmap.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/mkgmap-dev
OK, here is v3 of the patch based on v1. Changes: - also treat surface=paving_stones:30 as paved - treat highway=via_ferrata as unpaved - don't interpret smoothness=bad as unpaved Add spead penalty for roads with very_bad or worser smoothness if they are not flagged as unpaved highway=* & mkgmap:unpaved!=1 & smoothness ~ '.*(bad|horrible|impassable)' { add mkgmap:road-speed = '-2' } I still don't like this version. It sets mkgmap:unpaved=1 for highways which are explicitely mapped as paved, e.g. http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/150436049 which matches highway=tertiary & surface=paved & smoothness=very_bad or http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/38245394 There are quite a lot of major highways with a combination of paved surface and ugly smoothness. I think the smoothness tag should only be used to add a road speed penalty. Gerd ________________________________________ Von: mkgmap-dev <mkgmap-dev-bounces@lists.mkgmap.org.uk> im Auftrag von lig fietser <ligfietser@hotmail.com> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 9. Februar 2017 09:05:00 An: Development list for mkgmap Betreff: Re: [mkgmap-dev] [Patch] unpaved roads Yes, thats what I intended. Thanks for correcting this Gerd. ________________________________ Van: mkgmap-dev <mkgmap-dev-bounces@lists.mkgmap.org.uk> namens Gerd Petermann <GPetermann_muenchen@hotmail.com> Verzonden: woensdag 8 februari 2017 23:10:41 Aan: Development list for mkgmap Onderwerp: Re: [mkgmap-dev] [Patch] unpaved roads The thread suggest different changes. The last one is this: highway=* & mkgmap:unpaved=0 & smoothness ~ '.*(bad|horrible|impassable)' { add mkgmap:road-speed = '-2' } I think this will not work as there is no rule to set mkgmap:unpaved=0. Did you mean mkgmap:unpaved!=1 instead? Gerd ________________________________________ Von: mkgmap-dev <mkgmap-dev-bounces@lists.mkgmap.org.uk> im Auftrag von lig fietser <ligfietser@hotmail.com> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 8. Februar 2017 19:26:52 An: mkgmap-dev@lists.mkgmap.org.uk Betreff: Re: [mkgmap-dev] [Patch] unpaved roads I prefer v1, some remarks: Please add paving_stones:30 (6012 cases) I would suggest to set smoothness ~ '.*(very_bad|horrible|impassable)' and give smoothness=bad a road_speed penalty. See https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=57179 https://github.com/ligfietser/mkgmap-style-sheets/commit/1950f88900baaff405b... ________________________________ Hi all, I've created two different patches, both treat surface=cobblestone as paved. The major difference between v1 and v2 is in the handling of possibly conflicting attributes. For example, I found quite a lot of ways with highway=track, surface=paved , tracktype=3 in my hometown area. With v1 and also with unpatched default style this will be treated as unpaved, with v2 it is paved. The logic in v2 is that we first find surface tags which say "road is paved" and for those roads we will never set mkgmap:unpaved=1. Which one would you prefer? Gerd _______________________________________________ mkgmap-dev mailing list mkgmap-dev@lists.mkgmap.org.uk http://www.mkgmap.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/mkgmap-dev
I agree to use smoothness only for a speed penalty. I thought I reconized the last example that you mentioned, but it was another bad road that I cycled on in Romania (pasul Rarau, a few km to the west of your example, was paved and horrible, now marked as footpath) [😉] ________________________________ OK, here is v3 of the patch based on v1. Changes: - also treat surface=paving_stones:30 as paved - treat highway=via_ferrata as unpaved - don't interpret smoothness=bad as unpaved Add spead penalty for roads with very_bad or worser smoothness if they are not flagged as unpaved highway=* & mkgmap:unpaved!=1 & smoothness ~ '.*(bad|horrible|impassable)' { add mkgmap:road-speed = '-2' } I still don't like this version. It sets mkgmap:unpaved=1 for highways which are explicitely mapped as paved, e.g. http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/150436049 which matches highway=tertiary & surface=paved & smoothness=very_bad or http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/38245394 There are quite a lot of major highways with a combination of paved surface and ugly smoothness. I think the smoothness tag should only be used to add a road speed penalty. Gerd <http://www.mkgmap.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/mkgmap-dev>
And what about combinations of surface meaning paved with tracktype? The wiki says "Usually ... " or "Almost always an unpaved track" for most tracktype values. I see quite a lot of ways with highway=track & surface=concrete:lanes & tracktype=grade3 in my Niedersachsen: http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/lNI I think those are not unpaved, no matter how nice it is to cycle on them;-) Gerd ligfietser wrote
I agree to use smoothness only for a speed penalty. I thought I reconized the last example that you mentioned, but it was another bad road that I cycled on in Romania (pasul Rarau, a few km to the west of your example, was paved and horrible, now marked as footpath) [😉]
________________________________
OK, here is v3 of the patch based on v1. Changes: - also treat surface=paving_stones:30 as paved - treat highway=via_ferrata as unpaved - don't interpret smoothness=bad as unpaved
Add spead penalty for roads with very_bad or worser smoothness if they are not flagged as unpaved highway=* & mkgmap:unpaved!=1 & smoothness ~ '.*(bad|horrible|impassable)' { add mkgmap:road-speed = '-2' }
I still don't like this version. It sets mkgmap:unpaved=1 for highways which are explicitely mapped as paved, e.g. http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/150436049 which matches highway=tertiary & surface=paved & smoothness=very_bad or http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/38245394
There are quite a lot of major highways with a combination of paved surface and ugly smoothness. I think the smoothness tag should only be used to add a road speed penalty.
Gerd <http://www.mkgmap.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/mkgmap-dev>;
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My OFM will mark them as unpaved. The combination of track and grade3 counts more than the surface. I think the current default rules assign them also as unpaved. Your patch v3 too, is that correct? ________________________________ Gerd wrote: And what about combinations of surface meaning paved with tracktype? The wiki says "Usually ... " or "Almost always an unpaved track" for most tracktype values. I see quite a lot of ways with highway=track & surface=concrete:lanes & tracktype=grade3 in my Niedersachsen: http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/lNI I think those are not unpaved, no matter how nice it is to cycle on them;-) Gerd <http://www.mkgmap.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/mkgmap-dev>
Yes, v3 , v1 and current default style treat them as unpaved. Gerd ________________________________________ Von: mkgmap-dev <mkgmap-dev-bounces@lists.mkgmap.org.uk> im Auftrag von lig fietser <ligfietser@hotmail.com> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 9. Februar 2017 11:25:12 An: mkgmap-dev@lists.mkgmap.org.uk Betreff: Re: [mkgmap-dev] [Patch] unpaved roads My OFM will mark them as unpaved. The combination of track and grade3 counts more than the surface. I think the current default rules assign them also as unpaved. Your patch v3 too, is that correct? ________________________________ Gerd wrote: And what about combinations of surface meaning paved with tracktype? The wiki says "Usually ... " or "Almost always an unpaved track" for most tracktype values. I see quite a lot of ways with highway=track & surface=concrete:lanes & tracktype=grade3 in my Niedersachsen: http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/lNI I think those are not unpaved, no matter how nice it is to cycle on them;-) Gerd <http://www.mkgmap.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/mkgmap-dev>
I would interpret that the other way round. If surface=paved, concrete, ... treat it as paved, no matter what tracktype is. I think tracktype is very often misinterpreted by mappers, and wiki doesn't clarify it much either. Additionally, tracktype>1 may be an old tag placed before track was paved, in the same way that you can find a lot of highway=residential, tertiary, etc + tracktype=* El 09/02/17 a las 11:25, lig fietser escribió:
My OFM will mark them as unpaved. The combination of track and grade3 counts more than the surface. I think the current default rules assign them also as unpaved. Your patch v3 too, is that correct?
------------------------------------------------------------------------ Gerd wrote:
And what about combinations of surface meaning paved with tracktype? The wiki says "Usually ... " or "Almost always an unpaved track" for most tracktype values.
I see quite a lot of ways with highway=track & surface=concrete:lanes & tracktype=grade3 in my Niedersachsen: http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/lNI
I think those are not unpaved, no matter how nice it is to cycle on them;-)
Gerd
Okay, attached is v6 (more or less a mixture of v2 and v3) Some comments: Rule 1) surface values meaning paved: highway=* & (surface=asphalt | surface=paved | surface=sett | surface=concrete | surface=concrete:lanes | surface=concrete:plates | surface=paving_stones | surface=cobblestone | surface=cobblestone:flattened | surface=metal | surface=wood) { set mkgmap:unpaved=0 } Rule 2) tracktype=grade1 without explicit surface implies paved: highway=* & tracktype=grade1 & surface!=* { set mkgmap:unpaved=0 } Rule 3) highway which was not set to paved before and has a surface or valid tracktype tag is unpaved: highway=* & mkgmap:unpaved!=0 & ( surface=* | tracktype ~ 'grade[2-6]') { add mkgmap:unpaved=1 } Rule 4) highway with mtb:scale or climbing attributes is unpaved, even if surface says paved: highway=* & ( mtb:scale=* | sac_scale ~ '.*(mountain|alpine)_hiking' | sport=via_ferrata) { set mkgmap:unpaved=1 } Rule 5) default for hw= path or track is unpaved: (highway=path | highway=track) & mkgmap:unpaved!=0 { add mkgmap:unpaved=1 } Rule 6) set special highway types to unpaved even if surface says paved: (highway=bridleway | highway=unsurfaced | highway=via_ferrata) { set mkgmap:unpaved=1 } I am not 100% sure about hw=bridleway in rule 6. I think horses don't like paved ways, so a paved bridleway is probably a tagging error. I am quite happy with this. Does anybody know a good way to handle tags with lists like these? 1) surface=asphalt;paving_stones (all meaning paved) 2) surface=grass;earth (all meaning unpaved) 3) surface=asphalt;sand (mixed) Taginfo shows that most values containing a semicolon are of type 2 or 3. Maybe rule 1 should also contain asphalt;paving_stones , asphalt;paved and paved;asphalt Please suggest improvements, else I'll commit this patch on Monday. Gerd ________________________________________ Von: mkgmap-dev <mkgmap-dev-bounces@lists.mkgmap.org.uk> im Auftrag von Carlos Dávila <cdavilam@orangecorreo.es> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 9. Februar 2017 14:02:05 An: Development list for mkgmap Betreff: Re: [mkgmap-dev] [Patch] unpaved roads I would interpret that the other way round. If surface=paved, concrete, ... treat it as paved, no matter what tracktype is. I think tracktype is very often misinterpreted by mappers, and wiki doesn't clarify it much either. Additionally, tracktype>1 may be an old tag placed before track was paved, in the same way that you can find a lot of highway=residential, tertiary, etc + tracktype=* El 09/02/17 a las 11:25, lig fietser escribió:
My OFM will mark them as unpaved. The combination of track and grade3 counts more than the surface. I think the current default rules assign them also as unpaved. Your patch v3 too, is that correct?
------------------------------------------------------------------------ Gerd wrote:
And what about combinations of surface meaning paved with tracktype? The wiki says "Usually ... " or "Almost always an unpaved track" for most tracktype values.
I see quite a lot of ways with highway=track & surface=concrete:lanes & tracktype=grade3 in my Niedersachsen: http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/lNI
I think those are not unpaved, no matter how nice it is to cycle on them;-)
Gerd
_______________________________________________ mkgmap-dev mailing list mkgmap-dev@lists.mkgmap.org.uk http://www.mkgmap.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/mkgmap-dev
Great, but now you are not handling smoothness anymore. Regarding the double values, i would get the first and ignore all the rest. I believe these come from wrongly merging segments with different surfaces, there's no way to know which one is correct. Best regards, Alexandre Em 09/02/2017 13:43, Gerd Petermann escreveu:
Okay, attached is v6 (more or less a mixture of v2 and v3)
Some comments: Rule 1) surface values meaning paved: highway=* & (surface=asphalt | surface=paved | surface=sett | surface=concrete | surface=concrete:lanes | surface=concrete:plates | surface=paving_stones | surface=cobblestone | surface=cobblestone:flattened | surface=metal | surface=wood) { set mkgmap:unpaved=0 }
Rule 2) tracktype=grade1 without explicit surface implies paved: highway=* & tracktype=grade1 & surface!=* { set mkgmap:unpaved=0 }
Rule 3) highway which was not set to paved before and has a surface or valid tracktype tag is unpaved: highway=* & mkgmap:unpaved!=0 & ( surface=* | tracktype ~ 'grade[2-6]') { add mkgmap:unpaved=1 }
Rule 4) highway with mtb:scale or climbing attributes is unpaved, even if surface says paved: highway=* & ( mtb:scale=* | sac_scale ~ '.*(mountain|alpine)_hiking' | sport=via_ferrata) { set mkgmap:unpaved=1 } Rule 5) default for hw= path or track is unpaved: (highway=path | highway=track) & mkgmap:unpaved!=0 { add mkgmap:unpaved=1 } Rule 6) set special highway types to unpaved even if surface says paved: (highway=bridleway | highway=unsurfaced | highway=via_ferrata) { set mkgmap:unpaved=1 }
I am not 100% sure about hw=bridleway in rule 6. I think horses don't like paved ways, so a paved bridleway is probably a tagging error.
I am quite happy with this.
Does anybody know a good way to handle tags with lists like these? 1) surface=asphalt;paving_stones (all meaning paved) 2) surface=grass;earth (all meaning unpaved) 3) surface=asphalt;sand (mixed)
Taginfo shows that most values containing a semicolon are of type 2 or 3. Maybe rule 1 should also contain asphalt;paving_stones , asphalt;paved and paved;asphalt
Please suggest improvements, else I'll commit this patch on Monday.
Gerd ________________________________________ Von: mkgmap-dev <mkgmap-dev-bounces@lists.mkgmap.org.uk> im Auftrag von Carlos Dávila <cdavilam@orangecorreo.es> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 9. Februar 2017 14:02:05 An: Development list for mkgmap Betreff: Re: [mkgmap-dev] [Patch] unpaved roads
I would interpret that the other way round. If surface=paved, concrete, ... treat it as paved, no matter what tracktype is. I think tracktype is very often misinterpreted by mappers, and wiki doesn't clarify it much either. Additionally, tracktype>1 may be an old tag placed before track was paved, in the same way that you can find a lot of highway=residential, tertiary, etc + tracktype=*
El 09/02/17 a las 11:25, lig fietser escribió:
My OFM will mark them as unpaved. The combination of track and grade3 counts more than the surface. I think the current default rules assign them also as unpaved. Your patch v3 too, is that correct?
------------------------------------------------------------------------ Gerd wrote:
And what about combinations of surface meaning paved with tracktype? The wiki says "Usually ... " or "Almost always an unpaved track" for most tracktype values.
I see quite a lot of ways with highway=track & surface=concrete:lanes & tracktype=grade3 in my Niedersachsen: http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/lNI
I think those are not unpaved, no matter how nice it is to cycle on them;-)
Gerd
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reg. smoothness: the patch contains this line , forgot to comment it Rule 7: highway=* & mkgmap:unpaved!=1 & smoothness ~ '.*(bad|horrible|impassable)' { add mkgmap:road-speed = '-2' } reg. double values: I agree that most of them come from wrongly merged roads. The patch treats them all as unpaved, the unpatched version treats them like paved. I think the patch makes it more likely that someone will fix the wrong value(s), and it is producing fewer errors. I see no reason to believe that the first value is better than the 2nd. Gerd ________________________________________ Von: mkgmap-dev <mkgmap-dev-bounces@lists.mkgmap.org.uk> im Auftrag von Alexandre Folle de Menezes <afmlistas@terra.com.br> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 9. Februar 2017 17:45:46 An: Development list for mkgmap Betreff: Re: [mkgmap-dev] [Patch] unpaved roads Great, but now you are not handling smoothness anymore. Regarding the double values, i would get the first and ignore all the rest. I believe these come from wrongly merging segments with different surfaces, there's no way to know which one is correct. Best regards, Alexandre Em 09/02/2017 13:43, Gerd Petermann escreveu: Okay, attached is v6 (more or less a mixture of v2 and v3) Some comments: Rule 1) surface values meaning paved: highway=* & (surface=asphalt | surface=paved | surface=sett | surface=concrete | surface=concrete:lanes | surface=concrete:plates | surface=paving_stones | surface=cobblestone | surface=cobblestone:flattened | surface=metal | surface=wood) { set mkgmap:unpaved=0 } Rule 2) tracktype=grade1 without explicit surface implies paved: highway=* & tracktype=grade1 & surface!=* { set mkgmap:unpaved=0 } Rule 3) highway which was not set to paved before and has a surface or valid tracktype tag is unpaved: highway=* & mkgmap:unpaved!=0 & ( surface=* | tracktype ~ 'grade[2-6]') { add mkgmap:unpaved=1 } Rule 4) highway with mtb:scale or climbing attributes is unpaved, even if surface says paved: highway=* & ( mtb:scale=* | sac_scale ~ '.*(mountain|alpine)_hiking' | sport=via_ferrata) { set mkgmap:unpaved=1 } Rule 5) default for hw= path or track is unpaved: (highway=path | highway=track) & mkgmap:unpaved!=0 { add mkgmap:unpaved=1 } Rule 6) set special highway types to unpaved even if surface says paved: (highway=bridleway | highway=unsurfaced | highway=via_ferrata) { set mkgmap:unpaved=1 } I am not 100% sure about hw=bridleway in rule 6. I think horses don't like paved ways, so a paved bridleway is probably a tagging error. I am quite happy with this. Does anybody know a good way to handle tags with lists like these? 1) surface=asphalt;paving_stones (all meaning paved) 2) surface=grass;earth (all meaning unpaved) 3) surface=asphalt;sand (mixed) Taginfo shows that most values containing a semicolon are of type 2 or 3. Maybe rule 1 should also contain asphalt;paving_stones , asphalt;paved and paved;asphalt Please suggest improvements, else I'll commit this patch on Monday. Gerd ________________________________________ Von: mkgmap-dev <mkgmap-dev-bounces@lists.mkgmap.org.uk><mailto:mkgmap-dev-bounces@lists.mkgmap.org.uk> im Auftrag von Carlos Dávila <cdavilam@orangecorreo.es><mailto:cdavilam@orangecorreo.es> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 9. Februar 2017 14:02:05 An: Development list for mkgmap Betreff: Re: [mkgmap-dev] [Patch] unpaved roads I would interpret that the other way round. If surface=paved, concrete, ... treat it as paved, no matter what tracktype is. I think tracktype is very often misinterpreted by mappers, and wiki doesn't clarify it much either. Additionally, tracktype>1 may be an old tag placed before track was paved, in the same way that you can find a lot of highway=residential, tertiary, etc + tracktype=* El 09/02/17 a las 11:25, lig fietser escribió: My OFM will mark them as unpaved. The combination of track and grade3 counts more than the surface. I think the current default rules assign them also as unpaved. Your patch v3 too, is that correct? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Gerd wrote: And what about combinations of surface meaning paved with tracktype? The wiki says "Usually ... " or "Almost always an unpaved track" for most tracktype values. I see quite a lot of ways with highway=track & surface=concrete:lanes & tracktype=grade3 in my Niedersachsen: http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/lNI I think those are not unpaved, no matter how nice it is to cycle on them;-) Gerd _______________________________________________ mkgmap-dev mailing list mkgmap-dev@lists.mkgmap.org.uk<mailto:mkgmap-dev@lists.mkgmap.org.uk> http://www.mkgmap.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/mkgmap-dev _______________________________________________ mkgmap-dev mailing list mkgmap-dev@lists.mkgmap.org.uk<mailto:mkgmap-dev@lists.mkgmap.org.uk> http://www.mkgmap.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/mkgmap-dev
Good job Gerd, Two remarks: mtb:scale=0 can also be used for paved trails. I would suggest not to assume this means unpaved if mkgmap:unpaved=0 So better use this rule >0 and 0+ I guess bridleways can be paved too, so also apply this for mkgmap:unpaved!=0 ________________________________ Van: mkgmap-dev <mkgmap-dev-bounces@lists.mkgmap.org.uk> namens Gerd Petermann <GPetermann_muenchen@hotmail.com> Verzonden: donderdag 9 februari 2017 08:58:58 Aan: Development list for mkgmap Onderwerp: Re: [mkgmap-dev] [Patch] unpaved roads reg. smoothness: the patch contains this line , forgot to comment it Rule 7: highway=* & mkgmap:unpaved!=1 & smoothness ~ '.*(bad|horrible|impassable)' { add mkgmap:road-speed = '-2' } reg. double values: I agree that most of them come from wrongly merged roads. The patch treats them all as unpaved, the unpatched version treats them like paved. I think the patch makes it more likely that someone will fix the wrong value(s), and it is producing fewer errors. I see no reason to believe that the first value is better than the 2nd. Gerd ________________________________________ Von: mkgmap-dev <mkgmap-dev-bounces@lists.mkgmap.org.uk> im Auftrag von Alexandre Folle de Menezes <afmlistas@terra.com.br> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 9. Februar 2017 17:45:46 An: Development list for mkgmap Betreff: Re: [mkgmap-dev] [Patch] unpaved roads Great, but now you are not handling smoothness anymore. Regarding the double values, i would get the first and ignore all the rest. I believe these come from wrongly merging segments with different surfaces, there's no way to know which one is correct. Best regards, Alexandre Em 09/02/2017 13:43, Gerd Petermann escreveu: Okay, attached is v6 (more or less a mixture of v2 and v3) Some comments: Rule 1) surface values meaning paved: highway=* & (surface=asphalt | surface=paved | surface=sett | surface=concrete | surface=concrete:lanes | surface=concrete:plates | surface=paving_stones | surface=cobblestone | surface=cobblestone:flattened | surface=metal | surface=wood) { set mkgmap:unpaved=0 } Rule 2) tracktype=grade1 without explicit surface implies paved: highway=* & tracktype=grade1 & surface!=* { set mkgmap:unpaved=0 } Rule 3) highway which was not set to paved before and has a surface or valid tracktype tag is unpaved: highway=* & mkgmap:unpaved!=0 & ( surface=* | tracktype ~ 'grade[2-6]') { add mkgmap:unpaved=1 } Rule 4) highway with mtb:scale or climbing attributes is unpaved, even if surface says paved: highway=* & ( mtb:scale=* | sac_scale ~ '.*(mountain|alpine)_hiking' | sport=via_ferrata) { set mkgmap:unpaved=1 } Rule 5) default for hw= path or track is unpaved: (highway=path | highway=track) & mkgmap:unpaved!=0 { add mkgmap:unpaved=1 } Rule 6) set special highway types to unpaved even if surface says paved: (highway=bridleway | highway=unsurfaced | highway=via_ferrata) { set mkgmap:unpaved=1 } I am not 100% sure about hw=bridleway in rule 6. I think horses don't like paved ways, so a paved bridleway is probably a tagging error. I am quite happy with this. Does anybody know a good way to handle tags with lists like these? 1) surface=asphalt;paving_stones (all meaning paved) 2) surface=grass;earth (all meaning unpaved) 3) surface=asphalt;sand (mixed) Taginfo shows that most values containing a semicolon are of type 2 or 3. Maybe rule 1 should also contain asphalt;paving_stones , asphalt;paved and paved;asphalt Please suggest improvements, else I'll commit this patch on Monday. Gerd ________________________________________ Von: mkgmap-dev <mkgmap-dev-bounces@lists.mkgmap.org.uk><mailto:mkgmap-dev-bounces@lists.mkgmap.org.uk> im Auftrag von Carlos Dávila <cdavilam@orangecorreo.es><mailto:cdavilam@orangecorreo.es> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 9. Februar 2017 14:02:05 An: Development list for mkgmap Betreff: Re: [mkgmap-dev] [Patch] unpaved roads I would interpret that the other way round. If surface=paved, concrete, ... treat it as paved, no matter what tracktype is. I think tracktype is very often misinterpreted by mappers, and wiki doesn't clarify it much either. Additionally, tracktype>1 may be an old tag placed before track was paved, in the same way that you can find a lot of highway=residential, tertiary, etc + tracktype=* El 09/02/17 a las 11:25, lig fietser escribió: My OFM will mark them as unpaved. The combination of track and grade3 counts more than the surface. I think the current default rules assign them also as unpaved. Your patch v3 too, is that correct? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Gerd wrote: And what about combinations of surface meaning paved with tracktype? The wiki says "Usually ... " or "Almost always an unpaved track" for most tracktype values. I see quite a lot of ways with highway=track & surface=concrete:lanes & tracktype=grade3 in my Niedersachsen: http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/lNI I think those are not unpaved, no matter how nice it is to cycle on them;-) Gerd _______________________________________________ mkgmap-dev mailing list mkgmap-dev@lists.mkgmap.org.uk<mailto:mkgmap-dev@lists.mkgmap.org.uk> http://www.mkgmap.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/mkgmap-dev _______________________________________________ mkgmap-dev mailing list mkgmap-dev@lists.mkgmap.org.uk<mailto:mkgmap-dev@lists.mkgmap.org.uk> http://www.mkgmap.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/mkgmap-dev _______________________________________________ mkgmap-dev mailing list mkgmap-dev@lists.mkgmap.org.uk http://www.mkgmap.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/mkgmap-dev
Hi ligfietser, reg. mtb:scale: both the german and english the wiki for mtb:scale=0 say "Gravel or packed earth". I think that means unaved. But you are right, a lot of ways are tagged mtb:scale=0 &surface=asphalt, i also found some with mtb:scale=1 Does that mean that we should better ignore the mtb:scale tag reg. unpaved? reg. bridleway: My understanding is that horses don't like to go on paved ways. Do you have an example for a paved bridleway? Gerd ________________________________________ Von: mkgmap-dev <mkgmap-dev-bounces@lists.mkgmap.org.uk> im Auftrag von lig fietser <ligfietser@hotmail.com> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 9. Februar 2017 19:38:17 An: Development list for mkgmap Betreff: Re: [mkgmap-dev] [Patch] unpaved roads Good job Gerd, Two remarks: mtb:scale=0 can also be used for paved trails. I would suggest not to assume this means unpaved if mkgmap:unpaved=0 So better use this rule >0 and 0+ I guess bridleways can be paved too, so also apply this for mkgmap:unpaved!=0 ________________________________ Van: mkgmap-dev <mkgmap-dev-bounces@lists.mkgmap.org.uk> namens Gerd Petermann <GPetermann_muenchen@hotmail.com> Verzonden: donderdag 9 februari 2017 08:58:58 Aan: Development list for mkgmap Onderwerp: Re: [mkgmap-dev] [Patch] unpaved roads reg. smoothness: the patch contains this line , forgot to comment it Rule 7: highway=* & mkgmap:unpaved!=1 & smoothness ~ '.*(bad|horrible|impassable)' { add mkgmap:road-speed = '-2' } reg. double values: I agree that most of them come from wrongly merged roads. The patch treats them all as unpaved, the unpatched version treats them like paved. I think the patch makes it more likely that someone will fix the wrong value(s), and it is producing fewer errors. I see no reason to believe that the first value is better than the 2nd. Gerd ________________________________________ Von: mkgmap-dev <mkgmap-dev-bounces@lists.mkgmap.org.uk> im Auftrag von Alexandre Folle de Menezes <afmlistas@terra.com.br> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 9. Februar 2017 17:45:46 An: Development list for mkgmap Betreff: Re: [mkgmap-dev] [Patch] unpaved roads Great, but now you are not handling smoothness anymore. Regarding the double values, i would get the first and ignore all the rest. I believe these come from wrongly merging segments with different surfaces, there's no way to know which one is correct. Best regards, Alexandre Em 09/02/2017 13:43, Gerd Petermann escreveu: Okay, attached is v6 (more or less a mixture of v2 and v3) Some comments: Rule 1) surface values meaning paved: highway=* & (surface=asphalt | surface=paved | surface=sett | surface=concrete | surface=concrete:lanes | surface=concrete:plates | surface=paving_stones | surface=cobblestone | surface=cobblestone:flattened | surface=metal | surface=wood) { set mkgmap:unpaved=0 } Rule 2) tracktype=grade1 without explicit surface implies paved: highway=* & tracktype=grade1 & surface!=* { set mkgmap:unpaved=0 } Rule 3) highway which was not set to paved before and has a surface or valid tracktype tag is unpaved: highway=* & mkgmap:unpaved!=0 & ( surface=* | tracktype ~ 'grade[2-6]') { add mkgmap:unpaved=1 } Rule 4) highway with mtb:scale or climbing attributes is unpaved, even if surface says paved: highway=* & ( mtb:scale=* | sac_scale ~ '.*(mountain|alpine)_hiking' | sport=via_ferrata) { set mkgmap:unpaved=1 } Rule 5) default for hw= path or track is unpaved: (highway=path | highway=track) & mkgmap:unpaved!=0 { add mkgmap:unpaved=1 } Rule 6) set special highway types to unpaved even if surface says paved: (highway=bridleway | highway=unsurfaced | highway=via_ferrata) { set mkgmap:unpaved=1 } I am not 100% sure about hw=bridleway in rule 6. I think horses don't like paved ways, so a paved bridleway is probably a tagging error. I am quite happy with this. Does anybody know a good way to handle tags with lists like these? 1) surface=asphalt;paving_stones (all meaning paved) 2) surface=grass;earth (all meaning unpaved) 3) surface=asphalt;sand (mixed) Taginfo shows that most values containing a semicolon are of type 2 or 3. Maybe rule 1 should also contain asphalt;paving_stones , asphalt;paved and paved;asphalt Please suggest improvements, else I'll commit this patch on Monday. Gerd ________________________________________ Von: mkgmap-dev <mkgmap-dev-bounces@lists.mkgmap.org.uk><mailto:mkgmap-dev-bounces@lists.mkgmap.org.uk> im Auftrag von Carlos Dávila <cdavilam@orangecorreo.es><mailto:cdavilam@orangecorreo.es> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 9. Februar 2017 14:02:05 An: Development list for mkgmap Betreff: Re: [mkgmap-dev] [Patch] unpaved roads I would interpret that the other way round. If surface=paved, concrete, ... treat it as paved, no matter what tracktype is. I think tracktype is very often misinterpreted by mappers, and wiki doesn't clarify it much either. Additionally, tracktype>1 may be an old tag placed before track was paved, in the same way that you can find a lot of highway=residential, tertiary, etc + tracktype=* El 09/02/17 a las 11:25, lig fietser escribió: My OFM will mark them as unpaved. The combination of track and grade3 counts more than the surface. I think the current default rules assign them also as unpaved. Your patch v3 too, is that correct? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Gerd wrote: And what about combinations of surface meaning paved with tracktype? The wiki says "Usually ... " or "Almost always an unpaved track" for most tracktype values. I see quite a lot of ways with highway=track & surface=concrete:lanes & tracktype=grade3 in my Niedersachsen: http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/lNI I think those are not unpaved, no matter how nice it is to cycle on them;-) Gerd _______________________________________________ mkgmap-dev mailing list mkgmap-dev@lists.mkgmap.org.uk<mailto:mkgmap-dev@lists.mkgmap.org.uk> http://www.mkgmap.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/mkgmap-dev _______________________________________________ mkgmap-dev mailing list mkgmap-dev@lists.mkgmap.org.uk<mailto:mkgmap-dev@lists.mkgmap.org.uk> http://www.mkgmap.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/mkgmap-dev _______________________________________________ mkgmap-dev mailing list mkgmap-dev@lists.mkgmap.org.uk http://www.mkgmap.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/mkgmap-dev
Hi Gerd, Maybe take only mtb:scale>1 into account? Reg. bridleways, look in the UK, huge numbers of bridleways are tagged with surface=paved or surface=asphalt. So I'd say better only take bridleways into account that don't have mkgmap:unpaved=0 ________________________________ Hi ligfietser, reg. mtb:scale: both the german and english the wiki for mtb:scale=0 say "Gravel or packed earth". I think that means unaved. But you are right, a lot of ways are tagged mtb:scale=0 &surface=asphalt, i also found some with mtb:scale=1 Does that mean that we should better ignore the mtb:scale tag reg. unpaved? reg. bridleway: My understanding is that horses don't like to go on paved ways. Do you have an example for a paved bridleway? Gerd <http://www.mkgmap.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/mkgmap-dev>
Hi ligfietser, good points. Attached is v7 of the patch. reg. mtb:scale: It seems to me that many mappers confuse this with mtb:scale:uphill. I looked at quite a lot of ways with surface=asphalt & mtb:scale>=2 and they all look like normal roads to me. I tend to think that the tag mtb:scale is more likely to be wrong, mabye the road was once unpaved and later got a new surface. So, I think values > 2 are likely to be unpaved, below the surface tag is more likely to be correct when it says something like paved. Possible special case: surface=wood means paved, e.g. I think of a a bridge, BUT it might also be a construction on a difficult downhill track or a mistake meaning "rough ground with roots or branches". reg. bridleways: I've asked in the UK forum : https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=57310 I think that means you are right, we should treat highway=bridleway like path. BTW: I think the unpatched style really has an error. A way with highway=path + sac_scale=hiking is not treated as unpaved. There are quite a lot of them in the Alps. Gerd surface_v7.patch <http://gis.19327.n8.nabble.com/file/n5890993/surface_v7.patch> ligfietser wrote
Hi Gerd,
Maybe take only mtb:scale>1 into account?
Reg. bridleways, look in the UK, huge numbers of bridleways are tagged with surface=paved or surface=asphalt.
So I'd say better only take bridleways into account that don't have mkgmap:unpaved=0
________________________________ Hi ligfietser,
reg. mtb:scale: both the german and english the wiki for mtb:scale=0 say "Gravel or packed earth". I think that means unaved. But you are right, a lot of ways are tagged mtb:scale=0 &surface=asphalt, i also found some with mtb:scale=1 Does that mean that we should better ignore the mtb:scale tag reg. unpaved?
reg. bridleway: My understanding is that horses don't like to go on paved ways. Do you have an example for a paved bridleway?
Gerd <http://www.mkgmap.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/mkgmap-dev>;
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participants (6)
-
Alexandre Folle de Menezes -
Carlos Dávila -
Dave Swarthout -
Gerd Petermann -
Gerd Petermann
-
lig fietser