Hi. In the example mapnik.txt TYP file, the draworder of the polygons for woods/ forest 0x50 and wetland 0x51 are given like this: [_drawOrder] .. Type=0x050,3 .. Type=0x051,2 .. [End] When compiling a map, this means that wetlands in forests are not visible if this TYP is used. I tried makling a map using the same draworder Type=0x050,2 Type=0x051,2 plus using the option --order-by-decreasing-area This makes the wetland visible in forests. I could not see any negative impacts of this in the areas which i checked (a few in Sweden and Norway). Wetlands over other areas seems to work fine as well. Do you think such a change would be of help or is there a great risk that this type of change would impact negatively on the drawing of the maps? Regards Karl
Hi I understand that many users prefer a fixed order of rendering based on the polygon type, and this is part of the definition of mapnik.txt and seems to be the 'Garmin' way of doing things. If there is a consensus that the draworder should be different, then make it so. I'd think that wetland and forest should be the same as the other large-area landuse polygons, with priority 2 Option --order-by-decreasing-area removes the need to make any of these fixed rendering choices but at the cost of an increase in map size and, possibly, mkgmap execution time. It works for MapSource and BaseCamp and Garmin devices I've encountered, but not for GPSMapEdit. If used, it is best to set the draworder for all real polygons to the same value. It is a shame that the TYP.txt file has to contain everything (draworder, translations and object colour/icons). It would be beneficial it they could separated and the wanted variants of components supplied to mkgmap. Ticker On Mon, 2020-11-02 at 16:55 +0100, 7770 wrote:
Hi.
In the example mapnik.txt TYP file, the draworder of the polygons for woods/ forest 0x50 and wetland 0x51 are given like this:
[_drawOrder] .. Type=0x050,3 .. Type=0x051,2 .. [End]
When compiling a map, this means that wetlands in forests are not visible if this TYP is used.
I tried makling a map using the same draworder Type=0x050,2 Type=0x051,2 plus using the option --order-by-decreasing-area
This makes the wetland visible in forests. I could not see any negative impacts of this in the areas which i checked (a few in Sweden and Norway). Wetlands over other areas seems to work fine as well.
Do you think such a change would be of help or is there a great risk that this type of change would impact negatively on the drawing of the maps?
Regards Karl
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Hi. No worries. It just means that the map maker must be more thorough. I can see that some makers take this into consideration, but others have not. In effect it means that data is processed, but in the end cannot be shown if the TYP is applied at the end. --order-by-decreasing-area, according to the documentation only works if the polygons have the same draw order, which these two do not by default. Regards Karl On måndag 2 november 2020 kl. 18:18:11 CET Ticker Berkin wrote:
Hi
I understand that many users prefer a fixed order of rendering based on the polygon type, and this is part of the definition of mapnik.txt and seems to be the 'Garmin' way of doing things.
If there is a consensus that the draworder should be different, then make it so. I'd think that wetland and forest should be the same as the other large-area landuse polygons, with priority 2
Option --order-by-decreasing-area removes the need to make any of these fixed rendering choices but at the cost of an increase in map size and, possibly, mkgmap execution time. It works for MapSource and BaseCamp and Garmin devices I've encountered, but not for GPSMapEdit. If used, it is best to set the draworder for all real polygons to the same value.
It is a shame that the TYP.txt file has to contain everything (draworder, translations and object colour/icons). It would be beneficial it they could separated and the wanted variants of components supplied to mkgmap.
Ticker
On Mon, 2020-11-02 at 16:55 +0100, 7770 wrote:
Hi.
In the example mapnik.txt TYP file, the draworder of the polygons for woods/ forest 0x50 and wetland 0x51 are given like this:
[_drawOrder] .. Type=0x050,3 .. Type=0x051,2 .. [End]
When compiling a map, this means that wetlands in forests are not visible if this TYP is used.
I tried makling a map using the same draworder Type=0x050,2 Type=0x051,2 plus using the option --order-by-decreasing-area
This makes the wetland visible in forests. I could not see any negative impacts of this in the areas which i checked (a few in Sweden and Norway). Wetlands over other areas seems to work fine as well.
Do you think such a change would be of help or is there a great risk that this type of change would impact negatively on the drawing of the maps?
Regards Karl
_______________________________________________ mkgmap-dev mailing list mkgmap-dev@lists.mkgmap.org.uk http://www.mkgmap.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/mkgmap-dev
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The default garmin style (no TYP added), does draw the wetland in the forest. Actually it seems to draw it over the forest (no transparency). This occurs even without the --order-by-decreasing-area. Regards Karl On måndag 2 november 2020 kl. 18:26:42 CET 7770 wrote:
Hi. No worries. It just means that the map maker must be more thorough. I can see that some makers take this into consideration, but others have not. In effect it means that data is processed, but in the end cannot be shown if the TYP is applied at the end.
--order-by-decreasing-area, according to the documentation only works if the polygons have the same draw order, which these two do not by default.
Regards Karl
On måndag 2 november 2020 kl. 18:18:11 CET Ticker Berkin wrote:
Hi
I understand that many users prefer a fixed order of rendering based on the polygon type, and this is part of the definition of mapnik.txt and seems to be the 'Garmin' way of doing things.
If there is a consensus that the draworder should be different, then make it so. I'd think that wetland and forest should be the same as the other large-area landuse polygons, with priority 2
Option --order-by-decreasing-area removes the need to make any of these fixed rendering choices but at the cost of an increase in map size and, possibly, mkgmap execution time. It works for MapSource and BaseCamp and Garmin devices I've encountered, but not for GPSMapEdit. If used, it is best to set the draworder for all real polygons to the same value.
It is a shame that the TYP.txt file has to contain everything (draworder, translations and object colour/icons). It would be beneficial it they could separated and the wanted variants of components supplied to mkgmap.
Ticker
On Mon, 2020-11-02 at 16:55 +0100, 7770 wrote:
Hi.
In the example mapnik.txt TYP file, the draworder of the polygons for woods/ forest 0x50 and wetland 0x51 are given like this:
[_drawOrder] .. Type=0x050,3 .. Type=0x051,2 .. [End]
When compiling a map, this means that wetlands in forests are not visible if this TYP is used.
I tried makling a map using the same draworder Type=0x050,2 Type=0x051,2 plus using the option --order-by-decreasing-area
This makes the wetland visible in forests. I could not see any negative impacts of this in the areas which i checked (a few in Sweden and Norway). Wetlands over other areas seems to work fine as well.
Do you think such a change would be of help or is there a great risk that this type of change would impact negatively on the drawing of the maps?
Regards Karl
_______________________________________________ mkgmap-dev mailing list mkgmap-dev@lists.mkgmap.org.uk http://www.mkgmap.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/mkgmap-dev
_______________________________________________ mkgmap-dev mailing list mkgmap-dev@lists.mkgmap.org.uk http://www.mkgmap.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/mkgmap-dev
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Hi Karl The default draworder is probably device specific. It has been found that most polygon have the same priority, with, for some reason, just a few different - I think there is a wiki page on this. Without --order-by-decreasing area, the output order is as good as random, so one wetland might be over a forest, another underneath it. Even more interesting, on some devices, you might see a feature for a few seconds but then it will be overwritten by another with the same or higher draworder. This can be very obvious if you scroll across a map. My eTrex HCx did this because it started to display things as soon as possible. My eTrex 30x just shows a blank bit of screen until it is sure it has found all the features to display. Ticker On Mon, 2020-11-02 at 19:05 +0100, 7770 wrote:
The default garmin style (no TYP added), does draw the wetland in the forest. Actually it seems to draw it over the forest (no transparency).
This occurs even without the --order-by-decreasing-area.
Regards Karl
On måndag 2 november 2020 kl. 18:26:42 CET 7770 wrote:
Hi. No worries. It just means that the map maker must be more thorough. I can see that some makers take this into consideration, but others have not. In effect it means that data is processed, but in the end cannot be shown if the TYP is applied at the end.
--order-by-decreasing-area, according to the documentation only works if the polygons have the same draw order, which these two do not by default.
Regards Karl
On måndag 2 november 2020 kl. 18:18:11 CET Ticker Berkin wrote:
Hi
I understand that many users prefer a fixed order of rendering based on the polygon type, and this is part of the definition of mapnik.txt and seems to be the 'Garmin' way of doing things.
If there is a consensus that the draworder should be different, then make it so. I'd think that wetland and forest should be the same as the other large-area landuse polygons, with priority 2
Option --order-by-decreasing-area removes the need to make any of these fixed rendering choices but at the cost of an increase in map size and, possibly, mkgmap execution time. It works for MapSource and BaseCamp and Garmin devices I've encountered, but not for GPSMapEdit. If used, it is best to set the draworder for all real polygons to the same value.
It is a shame that the TYP.txt file has to contain everything (draworder, translations and object colour/icons). It would be beneficial it they could separated and the wanted variants of components supplied to mkgmap.
Ticker
On Mon, 2020-11-02 at 16:55 +0100, 7770 wrote:
Hi.
In the example mapnik.txt TYP file, the draworder of the polygons for woods/ forest 0x50 and wetland 0x51 are given like this:
[_drawOrder] .. Type=0x050,3 .. Type=0x051,2 .. [End]
When compiling a map, this means that wetlands in forests are not visible if this TYP is used.
I tried makling a map using the same draworder Type=0x050,2 Type=0x051,2 plus using the option --order-by-decreasing-area
This makes the wetland visible in forests. I could not see any negative impacts of this in the areas which i checked (a few in Sweden and Norway). Wetlands over other areas seems to work fine as well.
Do you think such a change would be of help or is there a great risk that this type of change would impact negatively on the drawing of the maps?
Regards Karl
_______________________________________________ mkgmap-dev mailing list mkgmap-dev@lists.mkgmap.org.uk http://www.mkgmap.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/mkgmap-dev
_______________________________________________ mkgmap-dev mailing list mkgmap-dev@lists.mkgmap.org.uk http://www.mkgmap.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/mkgmap-dev
_______________________________________________ mkgmap-dev mailing list mkgmap-dev@lists.mkgmap.org.uk http://www.mkgmap.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/mkgmap-dev
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Hi Ticker. Thanks for the explanation. Yes, i have seen how the etrex HCx does overwrite things as they draw... Regards Karl On måndag 2 november 2020 kl. 19:27:39 CET Ticker Berkin wrote:
Hi Karl
The default draworder is probably device specific. It has been found that most polygon have the same priority, with, for some reason, just a few different - I think there is a wiki page on this.
Without --order-by-decreasing area, the output order is as good as random, so one wetland might be over a forest, another underneath it. Even more interesting, on some devices, you might see a feature for a few seconds but then it will be overwritten by another with the same or higher draworder. This can be very obvious if you scroll across a map. My eTrex HCx did this because it started to display things as soon as possible. My eTrex 30x just shows a blank bit of screen until it is sure it has found all the features to display.
Ticker
On Mon, 2020-11-02 at 19:05 +0100, 7770 wrote:
The default garmin style (no TYP added), does draw the wetland in the forest. Actually it seems to draw it over the forest (no transparency).
This occurs even without the --order-by-decreasing-area.
Regards Karl
On måndag 2 november 2020 kl. 18:26:42 CET 7770 wrote:
Hi. No worries. It just means that the map maker must be more thorough. I can see that some makers take this into consideration, but others have not. In effect it means that data is processed, but in the end cannot be shown if the TYP is applied at the end.
--order-by-decreasing-area, according to the documentation only works if the polygons have the same draw order, which these two do not by default.
Regards Karl
On måndag 2 november 2020 kl. 18:18:11 CET Ticker Berkin wrote:
Hi
I understand that many users prefer a fixed order of rendering based on the polygon type, and this is part of the definition of mapnik.txt and seems to be the 'Garmin' way of doing things.
If there is a consensus that the draworder should be different, then make it so. I'd think that wetland and forest should be the same as the other large-area landuse polygons, with priority 2
Option --order-by-decreasing-area removes the need to make any of these fixed rendering choices but at the cost of an increase in map size and, possibly, mkgmap execution time. It works for MapSource and BaseCamp and Garmin devices I've encountered, but not for GPSMapEdit. If used, it is best to set the draworder for all real polygons to the same value.
It is a shame that the TYP.txt file has to contain everything (draworder, translations and object colour/icons). It would be beneficial it they could separated and the wanted variants of components supplied to mkgmap.
Ticker
On Mon, 2020-11-02 at 16:55 +0100, 7770 wrote:
Hi.
In the example mapnik.txt TYP file, the draworder of the polygons for woods/ forest 0x50 and wetland 0x51 are given like this:
[_drawOrder] .. Type=0x050,3 .. Type=0x051,2 .. [End]
When compiling a map, this means that wetlands in forests are not visible if this TYP is used.
I tried makling a map using the same draworder Type=0x050,2 Type=0x051,2 plus using the option --order-by-decreasing-area
This makes the wetland visible in forests. I could not see any negative impacts of this in the areas which i checked (a few in Sweden and Norway). Wetlands over other areas seems to work fine as well.
Do you think such a change would be of help or is there a great risk that this type of change would impact negatively on the drawing of the maps?
Regards Karl
_______________________________________________ mkgmap-dev mailing list mkgmap-dev@lists.mkgmap.org.uk http://www.mkgmap.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/mkgmap-dev
_______________________________________________ mkgmap-dev mailing list mkgmap-dev@lists.mkgmap.org.uk http://www.mkgmap.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/mkgmap-dev
_______________________________________________ mkgmap-dev mailing list mkgmap-dev@lists.mkgmap.org.uk http://www.mkgmap.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/mkgmap-dev
_______________________________________________ mkgmap-dev mailing list mkgmap-dev@lists.mkgmap.org.uk http://www.mkgmap.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/mkgmap-dev
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Hi Karl,
I tried makling a map using the same draworder Type=0x050,2 Type=0x051,2 plus using the option --order-by-decreasing-area
This is some kind of trick, not a general solution. There is no guarantee, that GPS will follow the order of objects in img. And I'm sure you can find examples, where bigger polygon should be drawn over a smaller one. Wetland is semi-transparent, you can set higher draw-order for it and forest below still will be visible. -- Best regards, Andrzej
Hi I have two examples where a larger polygon is drawn over smaller ones - near start of 'polygons': leisure=nature_reserve {set mkgmap:drawLevel=75} [0x16 resolution 19 continue] military=danger_area {set mkgmap:drawLevel=75} [0x11 resolution 20 continue] ... mkgmap:drawLevel is used to cause them to be output them after all naturally-sized polygons (same effect as a higher draworder) and they are represented in the TYP file with partially-transparent icons. I agree that there is no guarantee that future Garmin software will render objects with equal draworder in the order in which they occur in the map, but so far it has worked without exception. Ticker On Mon, 2020-11-02 at 19:49 +0100, Andrzej Popowski wrote:
Hi Karl,
I tried makling a map using the same draworder Type=0x050,2 Type=0x051,2 plus using the option --order-by-decreasing-area
This is some kind of trick, not a general solution. There is no guarantee, that GPS will follow the order of objects in img. And I'm sure you can find examples, where bigger polygon should be drawn over a smaller one.
Wetland is semi-transparent, you can set higher draw-order for it and forest below still will be visible.
participants (3)
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7770 -
Andrzej Popowski -
Ticker Berkin