Someone notified me that this highway that serves as a temporary runway during military exercises is not being considered for routing: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/45772320 aeroway = runway highway = primary name = Turuntie ref = 41 The obvious reason is that in styles/default/lines, aeroway=runway comes before any highway=* tags. I confirmed the non-routeability on my Edge 705, and my fix sort of worked: Index: resources/styles/default/lines =================================================================== --- resources/styles/default/lines (revision 1652) +++ resources/styles/default/lines (working copy) @@ -8,8 +8,8 @@ # and http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Mkgmap/help/Custom_styles # for more information. -aeroway=runway [0x27 resolution 20] -aeroway=taxiway [0x27 resolution 24] +aeroway=runway [0x27 resolution 20 continue] +aeroway=taxiway [0x27 resolution 24 continue] # Contours take their name from the elevation setting. contour=elevation & contour_ext=elevation_minor I would have preferred to see the runway on top of the highway, but the Edge 705 rendered only the highway. In other words, the Garmin line for the aeroway=runway object is just wasting memory. QLandkarteGT showed both lines on top of each other. I think that we should just move the aeroway=* rules below highway=* so that any highways that serve as temporary airfields will be translated as highways. Any objections to that? Are there any aeroway=* that are also tagged as highway=service, for example? Should they require some special treatment? Marko
Hi Marko Wouldn't it be better to amend the tagging in OSM to accurately describe what is actually on the ground? - road the majority of the time, runway, the minority. I maybe wrong, but it appears your using mkgmap to paper over the cracks in OSM. Cheers Dave F. Marko Mäkelä wrote:
Someone notified me that this highway that serves as a temporary runway during military exercises is not being considered for routing:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/45772320
aeroway = runway highway = primary name = Turuntie ref = 41
The obvious reason is that in styles/default/lines, aeroway=runway comes before any highway=* tags. I confirmed the non-routeability on my Edge 705, and my fix sort of worked:
Index: resources/styles/default/lines =================================================================== --- resources/styles/default/lines (revision 1652) +++ resources/styles/default/lines (working copy) @@ -8,8 +8,8 @@ # and http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Mkgmap/help/Custom_styles # for more information.
-aeroway=runway [0x27 resolution 20] -aeroway=taxiway [0x27 resolution 24] +aeroway=runway [0x27 resolution 20 continue] +aeroway=taxiway [0x27 resolution 24 continue]
# Contours take their name from the elevation setting. contour=elevation & contour_ext=elevation_minor
I would have preferred to see the runway on top of the highway, but the Edge 705 rendered only the highway. In other words, the Garmin line for the aeroway=runway object is just wasting memory. QLandkarteGT showed both lines on top of each other.
I think that we should just move the aeroway=* rules below highway=* so that any highways that serve as temporary airfields will be translated as highways. Any objections to that? Are there any aeroway=* that are also tagged as highway=service, for example? Should they require some special treatment?
Marko _______________________________________________ mkgmap-dev mailing list mkgmap-dev@lists.mkgmap.org.uk http://www.mkgmap.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/mkgmap-dev
On Sun, Jun 06, 2010 at 10:45:36PM +0100, Dave F. wrote:
Wouldn't it be better to amend the tagging in OSM to accurately describe what is actually on the ground? - road the majority of the time, runway, the minority.
I maybe wrong, but it appears your using mkgmap to paper over the cracks in OSM.
What tagging would you propose then? I think that highway=* and aeroway=* on the same way describes exactly this situation. Not all straight road sections can be used as runways. I would not remove the aeroway=* even though it might be used as such once in a year or so (and closed from general traffic). The aeroway=* could be useful for an OpenAviationMap that would display airfields from a much greater distance than highways. Marko
Cheers Dave F.
Marko Mäkelä wrote:
Someone notified me that this highway that serves as a temporary runway during military exercises is not being considered for routing:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/45772320
aeroway = runway highway = primary name = Turuntie ref = 41
The obvious reason is that in styles/default/lines, aeroway=runway comes before any highway=* tags. I confirmed the non-routeability on my Edge 705, and my fix sort of worked:
Index: resources/styles/default/lines =================================================================== --- resources/styles/default/lines (revision 1652) +++ resources/styles/default/lines (working copy) @@ -8,8 +8,8 @@ # and http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Mkgmap/help/Custom_styles # for more information.
-aeroway=runway [0x27 resolution 20] -aeroway=taxiway [0x27 resolution 24] +aeroway=runway [0x27 resolution 20 continue] +aeroway=taxiway [0x27 resolution 24 continue]
# Contours take their name from the elevation setting. contour=elevation & contour_ext=elevation_minor
I would have preferred to see the runway on top of the highway, but the Edge 705 rendered only the highway. In other words, the Garmin line for the aeroway=runway object is just wasting memory. QLandkarteGT showed both lines on top of each other.
I think that we should just move the aeroway=* rules below highway=* so that any highways that serve as temporary airfields will be translated as highways. Any objections to that? Are there any aeroway=* that are also tagged as highway=service, for example? Should they require some special treatment?
Marko _______________________________________________ mkgmap-dev mailing list mkgmap-dev@lists.mkgmap.org.uk http://www.mkgmap.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/mkgmap-dev
_______________________________________________ mkgmap-dev mailing list mkgmap-dev@lists.mkgmap.org.uk http://www.mkgmap.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/mkgmap-dev
Marko Mäkelä wrote:
On Sun, Jun 06, 2010 at 10:45:36PM +0100, Dave F. wrote:
Wouldn't it be better to amend the tagging in OSM to accurately describe what is actually on the ground? - road the majority of the time, runway, the minority.
I maybe wrong, but it appears your using mkgmap to paper over the cracks in OSM.
What tagging would you propose then? At the moment it's tagged as being both a highway & a runway at the same time!
Seeing you mention temporary, how about that? Within OSM it needs to say when it's one or the other. Are these exercises at the same time each year? Dave F.
On Tue, Jun 08, 2010 at 01:50:24PM +0100, Dave F. wrote:
What tagging would you propose then? At the moment it's tagged as being both a highway & a runway at the same time!
Seeing you mention temporary, how about that?
I don't know. Ice roads and lift bridges are temporary too. Would you suggest something like temporary_aeroway=runway? I would not like to introduce new tags. temporary=aeroway perhaps (in conjunction with aeroway=* and highway=*)
Within OSM it needs to say when it's one or the other.
It could be both: Index: resources/styles/default/lines =================================================================== --- resources/styles/default/lines (revision 1652) +++ resources/styles/default/lines (working copy) @@ -8,6 +8,8 @@ # and http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Mkgmap/help/Custom_styles # for more information. +aeroway=runway & highway=* [0x27 resolution 20 continue] +aeroway=taxiway & highway=* [0x27 resolution 24 continue] aeroway=runway [0x27 resolution 20] aeroway=taxiway [0x27 resolution 24] This would duplicate the aeroway objects only if they are also tagged as highways. aeroway=*, waterway=river would not be duplicated :-)
Are these exercises at the same time each year?
If I knew, I would have to kill myself. :-) Marko
Marko Mäkelä wrote:
On Tue, Jun 08, 2010 at 01:50:24PM +0100, Dave F. wrote:
What tagging would you propose then?
At the moment it's tagged as being both a highway & a runway at the same time!
Seeing you mention temporary, how about that?
I don't know. Ice roads If you mean roads with ice on them then, well... all roads get icy.
and lift bridges are temporary too. If you mean bridges that raise up to allow traffic to go underneath then no, it's not - it's always a lift bridge.
Would you suggest something like temporary_aeroway=runway? I would not like to introduce new tags. Why not? If there's nothing being used to describe it accurately then create it & document it. temporary=aeroway perhaps (in conjunction with aeroway=* and highway=*)
Within OSM it needs to say when it's one or the other.
It could be both:
At the same time?!?
Index: resources/styles/default/lines =================================================================== --- resources/styles/default/lines (revision 1652) +++ resources/styles/default/lines (working copy) @@ -8,6 +8,8 @@ # and http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Mkgmap/help/Custom_styles # for more information.
+aeroway=runway & highway=* [0x27 resolution 20 continue] +aeroway=taxiway & highway=* [0x27 resolution 24 continue] aeroway=runway [0x27 resolution 20] aeroway=taxiway [0x27 resolution 24]
This would duplicate the aeroway objects only if they are also tagged as highways. aeroway=*, waterway=river would not be duplicated :-)
OK, for now let's disregard the editing of mkgmap. Have you heard of Garbage In, Garbage Out? If the tags put into in OSM are inaccurate then the info going into any program, including mkgmap, is going to be garbage. The best I can think of at the moment is to tag is as a highway, which is what most people will regard it as, but with barriers at the relevant points that have access=* tags & any timings that are available. Regards Dave F.
On Tue, Jun 08, 2010 at 10:57:58PM +0100, Dave F. wrote:
I don't know. Ice roads If you mean roads with ice on them then, well... all roads get icy.
I mean lakes with 20+ cm ice cover on them so that you can drive even heavy trucks over them for a few months in the winter. They would be ploughed too. Some are several km long, some are much shorter. There is one across this water: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/18738651 but the ways (even to the coast) have not been surveyed yet. Outside winter, you would have to take the boat or a detour.
If you mean bridges that raise up to allow traffic to go underneath then no, it's not - it's always a lift bridge.
Some lift bridges are almost stationary. This one is raised every 10 or 20 years for maintenance: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/4727228 The lift bridge section, the barriers or the control/machine room building have not even been marked in OSM.
Have you heard of Garbage In, Garbage Out? If the tags put into in OSM are inaccurate then the info going into any program, including mkgmap, is going to be garbage.
Sure, I have heard of it, and I have no trouble editing obviously wrong map data, using common sense of how things usually are built in my country.
The best I can think of at the moment is to tag is as a highway, which is what most people will regard it as, but with barriers at the relevant points that have access=* tags & any timings that are available.
I would not map 'mobile' objects (other than gates and such, which are attached to some rail fixture or a pivot point). For example about here http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/285878811 there is a connection between the highway=trunk and highway=secondary that is blocked by a wall of conrete blocks. This would be near the NE of the temporary runway. There is another similar connection at the SW end, between the highway=motorway and the highway=secondary. For the duration of an exercise, the concrete blocks would be moved across the ref=5 motorway or trunk road, diverting cars to the highway=secondary ref=140. BTW, the motorway lanes that are tagged oneway are not separated by a greenfield, but the whole area has been paved. I don't think that the aeroway is completely wrong, but I agree that ways can't be highway and aeroway at the same time. One idea could be to define a relation on the ways (in the original problem, a highway=service loop and the straight section of highway) to mark the temporary air force base. I will seek for feedback on the Finland forum. Marko
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Marko Mäkelä