display of place names on lower zoom levels
On http://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=12817 someone reported that the name labels of places disappear too quickly. When I look at the default style, I notice there are some points for improvements: place=city [0x0400 resolution 20] place=hamlet [0x1100 resolution 23] place=suburb [0x0a00 resolution 23] place=town [0x0800 resolution 22] place=village [0x0b00 resolution 24] place=island [0x650c resolution 22] - villages are only shown at level 24 where hamlets are shown one level lower - resolution 23 is mentioned here, although it is not set in the options file: levels = 0:24, 1:22, 2:20, 3:18, 4:16 - all place names are only shown at the highest zoom levels. In my opinion cities should also be visible at levels 18 or even 16? Towns can better be set to 20, villages/suburbs 22 and hamlets 24? Maybe Marko can have a look at this? Cheers, Minko
Dear Minko, A bit off-topic, but what will happen if you used a resolution that is not set in the options file, similar to what you mentioned below? On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 5:12 PM, Minko <ligfietser@online.nl> wrote:
- resolution 23 is mentioned here, although it is not set in the options file: levels = 0:24, 1:22, 2:20, 3:18, 4:16
-- cheers, maning ------------------------------------------------------ "Freedom is still the most radical idea of all" -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ ------------------------------------------------------
If you set a suburb to 23, then this means 23 or higher so with the default levels given below it will be displayed at level 24. Garvan On 27-Jun-11 16:29, maning sambale wrote:
Dear Minko,
A bit off-topic, but what will happen if you used a resolution that is not set in the options file, similar to what you mentioned below?
On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 5:12 PM, Minko<ligfietser@online.nl> wrote:
- resolution 23 is mentioned here, although it is not set in the options file: levels = 0:24, 1:22, 2:20, 3:18, 4:16
Good question, If I look at the map, hamlets (res. 23) are only shown at resolution 24, so the same as villages (resolution 24) ---------- maning sambale wrote: Dear Minko, A bit off-topic, but what will happen if you used a resolution that is not set in the options file, similar to what you mentioned below?
On 27/06/2011 13:12, Minko wrote:
On http://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=12817 someone reported that the name labels of places disappear too quickly.
When I look at the default style, I notice there are some points for improvements:
place=city [0x0400 resolution 20] place=hamlet [0x1100 resolution 23] place=suburb [0x0a00 resolution 23] place=town [0x0800 resolution 22] place=village [0x0b00 resolution 24] place=island [0x650c resolution 22]
- villages are only shown at level 24 where hamlets are shown one level lower - resolution 23 is mentioned here, although it is not set in the options file: levels = 0:24, 1:22, 2:20, 3:18, 4:16 - all place names are only shown at the highest zoom levels. In my opinion cities should also be visible at levels 18 or even 16? Towns can better be set to 20, villages/suburbs 22 and hamlets 24?
Maybe Marko can have a look at this?
Cheers, Minko FWIW, I use the following rules for places:
# ------------------------------------------------ # PLACES # ------------------------------------------------ place=capitol | place=capital | capital=yes [0x0100 resolution 16] place=city [0x0200 resolution 16] place=town [0x0800 resolution 18] place=village [0x0b00 resolution 20] place=hamlet [0x0d00 resolution 23] place=country [0x1400 resolution 12] place=region & population > 1000000 [0x1400 resolution 16] place=state [0x1400 resolution 16] place=county & population > 500000 [0x1400 resolution 16] place=island [0x1e00 resolution 16] place=suburb | place=municipality | place=district [0x1e00 resolution 20] place=locality [0x1e00 resolution 23] -- Charlie
On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 11:12:51AM +0200, Minko wrote:
On http://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=12817 someone reported that the name labels of places disappear too quickly.
I would say that it is a matter of taste. If I look at the basemap at the widest zoom with full map detail on the Edge 705, I will not see any country borders in Europe because they are obscured by the country names.
When I look at the default style, I notice there are some points for improvements:
place=city [0x0400 resolution 20] place=hamlet [0x1100 resolution 23] place=suburb [0x0a00 resolution 23] place=town [0x0800 resolution 22] place=village [0x0b00 resolution 24] place=island [0x650c resolution 22]
These are somewhat out of sync with the polygons style file, which specifies resolution 19 for village and island, and 20 for islet.
- villages are only shown at level 24 where hamlets are shown one level lower - resolution 23 is mentioned here, although it is not set in the options file: levels = 0:24, 1:22, 2:20, 3:18, 4:16 - all place names are only shown at the highest zoom levels. In my opinion cities should also be visible at levels 18 or even 16? Towns can better be set to 20, villages/suburbs 22 and hamlets 24?
Maybe Marko can have a look at this?
OK, I will experiment with this. Marko
Also note, that labels have nothing to do with resolution. They depend much more on the 0x type. Also there is a difference in importance of labels of POI/POLYGON/POLYLINES. If a place is shown but no label, then lowering the resolution won't change (but instead create a mess in the lower resolutions). The only improvement would be to include population>?? to places (particulary cities & towns) for finer separation. However this would then still cause problems if looking at i.e. Benelux/Nordrein-Westfalen vs less populated regions. If you want a map for Alaska you could simply lower resolution for nearly everything by 1-2 levels. However that should not be default (default should be based on rather heavily populated regions, as those regions have most potential people using the maps...). On 27.06.2011 22:33, Marko Mäkelä wrote:
On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 11:12:51AM +0200, Minko wrote:
On http://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=12817 someone reported that the name labels of places disappear too quickly. I would say that it is a matter of taste. If I look at the basemap at the widest zoom with full map detail on the Edge 705, I will not see any country borders in Europe because they are obscured by the country names.
When I look at the default style, I notice there are some points for improvements:
place=city [0x0400 resolution 20] place=hamlet [0x1100 resolution 23] place=suburb [0x0a00 resolution 23] place=town [0x0800 resolution 22] place=village [0x0b00 resolution 24] place=island [0x650c resolution 22] These are somewhat out of sync with the polygons style file, which specifies resolution 19 for village and island, and 20 for islet.
- villages are only shown at level 24 where hamlets are shown one level lower - resolution 23 is mentioned here, although it is not set in the options file: levels = 0:24, 1:22, 2:20, 3:18, 4:16 - all place names are only shown at the highest zoom levels. In my opinion cities should also be visible at levels 18 or even 16? Towns can better be set to 20, villages/suburbs 22 and hamlets 24?
Maybe Marko can have a look at this? OK, I will experiment with this.
Marko _______________________________________________ mkgmap-dev mailing list mkgmap-dev@lists.mkgmap.org.uk http://www.mkgmap.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/mkgmap-dev
Not only the labels are not shown but also the place nodes. Even at a very dense detailed map as here in the NL's it is not good to see that all cities are gone from the map after 3 km zoom on a normal detail level in Mapsource. This has nothing to do with 0x type but is set in the default points style file. So in my opinion towns and cities should be set on a lower zoom level, for instance 16 for cities and 18 for towns. Villages at 22 and hamlets 24. Felix wrote: Also note, that labels have nothing to do with resolution. They depend much more on the 0x type. Also there is a difference in importance of labels of POI/POLYGON/POLYLINES.
On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 10:08:46AM +0200, Minko wrote:
Not only the labels are not shown but also the place nodes. Even at a very dense detailed map as here in the NL's it is not good to see that all cities are gone from the map after 3 km zoom on a normal detail level in Mapsource. This has nothing to do with 0x type but is set in the default points style file. So in my opinion towns and cities should be set on a lower zoom level, for instance 16 for cities and 18 for towns. Villages at 22 and hamlets 24.
I hope that you are happy with r1978. It seemed to produce fairly reasonable results on my Edge 705, trying different detail levels. place=city would appear at the same time with highway=motorway, and smaller towns would appear at closer zoom levels. Best regards, Marko
One more thing that has been reported on the forum, is the issue that labels for hamlets in Mapsource are bigger than villages. If I look on http://ati.land.cz/gps/typdecomp/editor.cgi it shows that garmin type 0x1100 (used for hamlets) is shown as "City name(Point, big)" whereas type 0x0b (villages) have "City name (Point, small)". Maybe this can be turned around, villages -> 0x1100 hamlets -> 0x0b ?
Hi Minko, On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 11:25:22AM +0200, Minko wrote:
One more thing that has been reported on the forum, is the issue that labels for hamlets in Mapsource are bigger than villages.
This did not occur to me, because the place=hamlet is virtually unknown in my country. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamlet_%28place%29 does not even have a Finnish translation.
If I look on http://ati.land.cz/gps/typdecomp/editor.cgi it shows that garmin type 0x1100 (used for hamlets) is shown as "City name(Point, big)" whereas type 0x0b (villages) have "City name (Point, small)". Maybe this can be turned around, villages -> 0x1100 hamlets -> 0x0b ?
If nobody disagrees with this suggestion, I will do it. Marko
participants (6)
-
Charlie Ferrero -
Felix Hartmann -
Garvan -
maning sambale -
Marko Mäkelä -
Minko