I use a gmapsupp.img generated with a reduced style derived from the default mkgmap-style . Routing for cars works fine, if the routes are short. But if I try to plan a long journey (1000 km). The route calculation gets stuck for some minutes at lets say 80 percent and finally comes to a result. But the resulting route is something that looks like a concatenation of beelines. My assumption is, that Nüvi contains an overview map of the world (or Europe) that I cannot disable. Could I replace it using --tdbfile in mkgmap? But the option mentions MapSource, I tried to avoid MapSource for now. Routing works fine, if I disable Motorways (or toll roads), but the route seems to be somewhat inconvenient. Perhaps my questions is a little bit outdated, since there are good smartphone based apps for navigation. But I love my old fashioned Nüvi. This leads to the next question: Is there a chance that there will be TMC information compiled into mkgmap maps sometimes in the future? As far as I understand, nobody knows where it is stored inside encrypted proprietary maps. Best regards Bodo
TMC abbreviation: Traffic Message Channel (TMC) is a technology for delivering traffic and travel information to motor vehicle drivers. .... have to be superimposed onto maps bymapping the reported location ... N
On 27 Jul 2017, at 1:46 am, Bodo Pfelzer <bodo.pfelzer@web.de> wrote:
I use a gmapsupp.img generated with a reduced style derived from the default mkgmap-style . Routing for cars works fine, if the routes are short. But if I try to plan a long journey (1000 km). The route calculation gets stuck for some minutes at lets say 80 percent and finally comes to a result. But the resulting route is something that looks like a concatenation of beelines. My assumption is, that Nüvi contains an overview map of the world (or Europe) that I cannot disable. Could I replace it using --tdbfile in mkgmap? But the option mentions MapSource, I tried to avoid MapSource for now.
Routing works fine, if I disable Motorways (or toll roads), but the route seems to be somewhat inconvenient.
Perhaps my questions is a little bit outdated, since there are good smartphone based apps for navigation. But I love my old fashioned Nüvi. This leads to the next question: Is there a chance that there will be TMC information compiled into mkgmap maps sometimes in the future? As far as I understand, nobody knows where it is stored inside encrypted proprietary maps.
Best regards Bodo _______________________________________________ mkgmap-dev mailing list mkgmap-dev@lists.mkgmap.org.uk http://www.mkgmap.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/mkgmap-dev
What needs to be embedded into the map, is the Location Table which maps the location IDs in the TMC messages to roads, junctions etc in the map network. The radio messages only contain location IDs, not lat/lon. Not all location tables are available as open data - each country has its own ideas. I believe that the German OSM community has done quite a bit of work on TMC in OSM, probably including the Location Table data. But who knows how that information needs to be encoded in a Garmin map... //colin On 2017-07-26 22:47, nwastra wrote:
TMC abbreviation: Traffic Message Channel (TMC) is a technology for delivering traffic and travel information to motor vehicle drivers. .... have to be superimposed onto maps bymapping the reported location ...
N
On 27 Jul 2017, at 1:46 am, Bodo Pfelzer <bodo.pfelzer@web.de> wrote:
I use a gmapsupp.img generated with a reduced style derived from the default mkgmap-style . Routing for cars works fine, if the routes are short. But if I try to plan a long journey (1000 km). The route calculation gets stuck for some minutes at lets say 80 percent and finally comes to a result. But the resulting route is something that looks like a concatenation of beelines. My assumption is, that Nüvi contains an overview map of the world (or Europe) that I cannot disable. Could I replace it using --tdbfile in mkgmap? But the option mentions MapSource, I tried to avoid MapSource for now.
Routing works fine, if I disable Motorways (or toll roads), but the route seems to be somewhat inconvenient.
Perhaps my questions is a little bit outdated, since there are good smartphone based apps for navigation. But I love my old fashioned Nüvi. This leads to the next question: Is there a chance that there will be TMC information compiled into mkgmap maps sometimes in the future? As far as I understand, nobody knows where it is stored inside encrypted proprietary maps.
Best regards Bodo
_______________________________________________ mkgmap-dev mailing list mkgmap-dev@lists.mkgmap.org.uk http://www.mkgmap.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/mkgmap-dev
_______________________________________________ mkgmap-dev mailing list mkgmap-dev@lists.mkgmap.org.uk http://www.mkgmap.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/mkgmap-dev
Hi Bodo, the --tdbfile option has no effect on the created gmapsupp. My understanding reg. long distance routing on the device is that the algorthm needs memory which is limited. On my Oregon this typically results in one straigt line after minutes. Maybe the nüvi uses a different algo. It would be interesting to know if you can reproduce the problems in Mapsource because that would allow us to reproduce them as well. I stopped using the device for long distance routing (> 50 km), I use internet services now and download the routes as tracks. I can only suggest to avoid long distance routing by adding additional points. ciao, Gerd ________________________________________ Von: mkgmap-dev <mkgmap-dev-bounces@lists.mkgmap.org.uk> im Auftrag von Bodo Pfelzer <bodo.pfelzer@web.de> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 26. Juli 2017 17:46:20 An: mkgmap-dev@lists.mkgmap.org.uk Betreff: [mkgmap-dev] Strange long distance routes on Nüvi I use a gmapsupp.img generated with a reduced style derived from the default mkgmap-style . Routing for cars works fine, if the routes are short. But if I try to plan a long journey (1000 km). The route calculation gets stuck for some minutes at lets say 80 percent and finally comes to a result. But the resulting route is something that looks like a concatenation of beelines. My assumption is, that Nüvi contains an overview map of the world (or Europe) that I cannot disable. Could I replace it using --tdbfile in mkgmap? But the option mentions MapSource, I tried to avoid MapSource for now. Routing works fine, if I disable Motorways (or toll roads), but the route seems to be somewhat inconvenient. Perhaps my questions is a little bit outdated, since there are good smartphone based apps for navigation. But I love my old fashioned Nüvi. This leads to the next question: Is there a chance that there will be TMC information compiled into mkgmap maps sometimes in the future? As far as I understand, nobody knows where it is stored inside encrypted proprietary maps. Best regards Bodo
Hi, I'm using my maps even for long distance routing. Typically 600-800 km, Germany to Italy or Spain, Germany to UK. My device is a Montana 600/610. I do not use my maps on the pc (mapsource, etc). Adding additional (way)points helps me to control the exact route. Regards, Michael Zitat von Gerd Petermann <GPetermann_muenchen@hotmail.com>:
Hi Bodo,
the --tdbfile option has no effect on the created gmapsupp. My understanding reg. long distance routing on the device is that the algorthm needs memory which is limited. On my Oregon this typically results in one straigt line after minutes. Maybe the nüvi uses a different algo. It would be interesting to know if you can reproduce the problems in Mapsource because that would allow us to reproduce them as well. I stopped using the device for long distance routing (> 50 km), I use internet services now and download the routes as tracks. I can only suggest to avoid long distance routing by adding additional points.
ciao, Gerd ________________________________________ Von: mkgmap-dev <mkgmap-dev-bounces@lists.mkgmap.org.uk> im Auftrag von Bodo Pfelzer <bodo.pfelzer@web.de> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 26. Juli 2017 17:46:20 An: mkgmap-dev@lists.mkgmap.org.uk Betreff: [mkgmap-dev] Strange long distance routes on Nüvi
I use a gmapsupp.img generated with a reduced style derived from the default mkgmap-style . Routing for cars works fine, if the routes are short. But if I try to plan a long journey (1000 km). The route calculation gets stuck for some minutes at lets say 80 percent and finally comes to a result. But the resulting route is something that looks like a concatenation of beelines. My assumption is, that Nüvi contains an overview map of the world (or Europe) that I cannot disable. Could I replace it using --tdbfile in mkgmap? But the option mentions MapSource, I tried to avoid MapSource for now.
Routing works fine, if I disable Motorways (or toll roads), but the route seems to be somewhat inconvenient.
Perhaps my questions is a little bit outdated, since there are good smartphone based apps for navigation. But I love my old fashioned Nüvi. This leads to the next question: Is there a chance that there will be TMC information compiled into mkgmap maps sometimes in the future? As far as I understand, nobody knows where it is stored inside encrypted proprietary maps.
Best regards Bodo _______________________________________________ mkgmap-dev mailing list mkgmap-dev@lists.mkgmap.org.uk http://www.mkgmap.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/mkgmap-dev
Hi, I think TMC is supported only by NT maps. There should be TMC ID somewhere in img and there is additional file with extension *.trf in mapset, similarly like global index. It would need a lot of revers engineering to find how it all works. And there is not much TMC data in OSM. Probably only in Germany. I have done some work in my own styles to improve long distance routing. This include recognizing international roads and increase of road class for junctions. I will try to prepare a patch for default style. -- Best regards, Andrzej
Hi, here is attached my proposition for improving long distance routing. Please test and check if it helps. -- Best regards, Andrzej
Hi Bodo, I think Garmin is using some kind of hierarchical routing algorithm. It looks like GPS uses only class 4 and 3 roads for long distances (at least in case of recent nuvis, hiking GPS can be more flexible). For proper routing GPS needs a continuous and reasonably dense notwork of high class roads. My patch address 2 problems in default style. First are links and roundabouts, which often get lower road class than connected roads. This breaks continuity of high class network and breaks routing. My patch simply increases road class for many links and roundabout types. Second problem is low density of good highways in some regions. To make it better, my patch increases road class for international roads. These roads are detected by "ref" and "int_ref" tags, both in objects and relations. I have added some small general corrections for "highway=mini_roundabout", "access=hov" and "oneway=reversible". There is no direct change for "inc\roadspeed". Maybe patch overrides some of your changes in "lines" file? Anyway, I don't think road speed breaks routing, you can tune it to your liking. -- Best regards, Andrzej
Hi Andrzej, I looked at your patch and it seems reasonable to me but as a cyclist I'd prefer to use a different tag instead of mkgmap:good_road, maybe mkgmap:fast_road? Do you know how this patch influences bicycle routing? The special handling of highway=mini_roundabout is somewhat problematic because that tag should not be used on ways. I also would not use the type 0x0c for them, so I suggest to remove that rule so that our "mop up" rule catches them: # Mop up any unrecognised highway types highway=* & area!=yes [0x07 road_class=0 road_speed=0 resolution 23] Gerd popej wrote
Hi Bodo,
I think Garmin is using some kind of hierarchical routing algorithm. It looks like GPS uses only class 4 and 3 roads for long distances (at least in case of recent nuvis, hiking GPS can be more flexible). For proper routing GPS needs a continuous and reasonably dense notwork of high class roads.
My patch address 2 problems in default style.
First are links and roundabouts, which often get lower road class than connected roads. This breaks continuity of high class network and breaks routing. My patch simply increases road class for many links and roundabout types.
Second problem is low density of good highways in some regions. To make it better, my patch increases road class for international roads. These roads are detected by "ref" and "int_ref" tags, both in objects and relations.
I have added some small general corrections for "highway=mini_roundabout", "access=hov" and "oneway=reversible".
There is no direct change for "inc\roadspeed". Maybe patch overrides some of your changes in "lines" file? Anyway, I don't think road speed breaks routing, you can tune it to your liking.
-- Best regards, Andrzej _______________________________________________ mkgmap-dev mailing list
mkgmap-dev@.org
-- View this message in context: http://gis.19327.n8.nabble.com/Strange-long-distance-routes-on-Nuvi-tp589982... Sent from the Mkgmap Development mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Hi Gerd, mkgmap:fast_road is OK. I was looking for shorter synonym of important_road, "fast" fits well enough. I have no experience with bicycle routing. Maybe someone else could comment. I prefer to put min_roundabout explicitly, since I don't use mop up rule for my car maps. I guess type 0x07 could be used too, don't know which is more appropriate for this object. -- Best regards, Andrzej
participants (8)
-
Andrzej Popowski -
Bodo Pfelzer -
Bodo Pfelzer -
Colin Smale -
Gerd Petermann -
Gerd Petermann
-
michael.poesdorf＠poesinet.de -
nwastra