Naming cycleways or footways by the adjacent highway
To make turn directions easier to read, I begun adding name, name:fi, name:sv to cycleways that are running adjacent to ways for motor vehicles. In this way, I will see the road names instead of "Track". Today I got some objection for that and a suggestion to introduce a tag for the "fake" cycleway names. I have to agree with the objection. Some cycleways do carry genuine names, and with my constructive tagging, it will be harder to distinguish genuinely named cycleways from ones that merely run along a way. Furthermore, some cycleway=track that are adjacent to a major road can be separated by tens of meters of natural=wood near multi-layer junctions. It would feel wrong to see these cycleways tagged with the ref or name of adjacent way (say, E75 or M1 or A1) in the SlippyMap view. Is there any "standard" tag for such "fake" cycleway names? Theoretically, the most appealing approach would be to group all OSM ways (lanes) that belong to a physical highway in a relation. Alas, based on what I have seen when fixing roundabouts, relations tend to get broken over time. Could we invent a new name tag for this? User alv proposed name:isnextto, but I find that it could be confused with a language code such as name:en. Perhaps way_name and way_ref? Any ideas? Best regards, Marko
Marko Mäkelä wrote:
To make turn directions easier to read, I begun adding name, name:fi, name:sv to cycleways that are running adjacent to ways for motor vehicles. In this way, I will see the road names instead of "Track".
Today I got some objection for that and a suggestion to introduce a tag for the "fake" cycleway names. I have to agree with the objection. Some cycleways do carry genuine names, and with my constructive tagging, it will be harder to distinguish genuinely named cycleways from ones that merely run along a way. Furthermore, some cycleway=track that are adjacent to a major road can be separated by tens of meters of natural=wood near multi-layer junctions. It would feel wrong to see these cycleways tagged with the ref or name of adjacent way (say, E75 or M1 or A1) in the SlippyMap view.
Is there any "standard" tag for such "fake" cycleway names? Theoretically, the most appealing approach would be to group all OSM ways (lanes) that belong to a physical highway in a relation. Alas, based on what I have seen when fixing roundabouts, relations tend to get broken over time. Could we invent a new name tag for this? User alv proposed name:isnextto, but I find that it could be confused with a language code such as name:en. Perhaps way_name and way_ref? Any ideas?
Best regards,
Marko
I wouldn't even use routable cycleway=*; But in my opinion a map shared for car/cycle use anyhow will not work out. Better add visual cycleways beside the road to distinguish them.
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Hallo Felix, On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 11:04:45PM +0100, Felix Hartmann wrote:
I wouldn't even use routable cycleway=*;
But in my opinion a map shared for car/cycle use anyhow will not work out. Better add visual cycleways beside the road to distinguish them.
I find routable cycleways extremely useful. For instance, the cycleways along the Helsinki ring roads (Kehä I and Kehä III) are illogical and very poorly signed. You must know which tunnels to take, or you will notice (if you are lucky) a few hundred meters later that you are on the wrong road or the cycleway is a dead end. (The motor vehicle road is forbidden from foot and bicycle traffic.) In some junctions, you will easily get to the wrong cycleway, effectively taking a turn instead of continuing straight on. In these cases, it would be useful to see "Kehä I" or "Kehä III" on cycleways, even though they are in the middle of a forest, 100 meters away from cars. This is not really a mkgmap question, but I thought that producers of bicycle oriented maps (guys like you) could already have an answer. But I guess MTB'ing is a quite different hobby from touring or "utility bicycling". (At least once per month, I am riding 50 to 100 km in one day when doing errands. The bicycle is my "car" and the Edge 705 allows me to take shortcuts that avoid unpleasant major roads.) I think I will have to bring this up on a more general forum. I do not have the guts to edit http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:name without discussion. Best regards, Marko
On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 11:59:53PM +0200, Marko Mäkelä wrote:
Is there any "standard" tag for such "fake" cycleway names? Theoretically, the most appealing approach would be to group all OSM ways (lanes) that belong to a physical highway in a relation. Alas, based on what I have seen when fixing roundabouts, relations tend to get broken over time. Could we invent a new name tag for this? User alv proposed name:isnextto, but I find that it could be confused with a language code such as name:en. Perhaps way_name and way_ref? Any ideas?
I got a third idea: introduce a way attribute for indicating that the name is actually copied from a nearby way. There already are attributes that suppress the rendering of names. I posted a question at http://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?pid=46412 and hope to get some feedback there. In that message, I am also suggesting an attribute for hiding objects on certain zoom levels, to remove clutter from cycleway lanes drawn as separate ways and to allow minor ways to be drawn at wide zoom levels when they are the only ways through a large area. Maybe there already is a mkgmap:resolution attribute, but a generic name that can be interpreted by "all" renderers would be better. Best regards, Marko
participants (2)
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Felix Hartmann -
Marko Mäkelä