Hi, reg. routing errors: I think we should only consider results of current software, means, recent maps created by Garmin or with latest versions of mkgmap and latest Garmin software (firmware or PC software). So, if you can reproduce a case where Garmin software ignores restrictions, please post details, else I prefer to think that mkgmap is writing wrong img data. Besides that I fear that Felix is right, the risk is high that the cycleway is not connected to other roads. Unfortunately it is quite complex to detect parallel roads, I already needed that for the housenumber code and found no algo. Gerd

Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2015 17:05:00 +0300 From: marko.makela@iki.fi To: mkgmap-dev@lists.mkgmap.org.uk Subject: Re: [mkgmap-dev] bicycle=use_sidepath

On Mon, Aug 17, 2015 at 03:34:26PM +0200, Felix Hartmann wrote:

...

Definitely not I would say. It will just cause routing to break down for cyclists IMHO. Too often such sidepathes won't be connected - or maybe the sidepath is not even entered in OSM.

It might not even matter if the sidepaths have been entered and connected. For long-distance routing, I believe that the Garmin Edge 705 completely ignores cycleways for the middle section of the route. Cycleways would only be considered for the first and last 5 kilometers or so.

So, if you have a 50-kilometer route that would involve riding on a cyclepath next to a highway=trunk, Garmin Edge 705 would send you on a 200-kilometer detour using smaller roads. I had this happen to me a few years ago. Ways like http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/167517631 were being ignored, and http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/17065902 was tagged bicycle=no already then.

That said, I guess that treating more bicycle=* values in the same way as bicycle=no will not make the situation much worse. If you want proper long-distance bicycle routing, you have to use a precalculated route (or better routing software, such as Brouter).

Marko _______________________________________________ mkgmap-dev mailing list mkgmap-dev@lists.mkgmap.org.uk http://www.mkgmap.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/mkgmap-dev

On Mon, Aug 17, 2015 at 04:33:20PM +0200, Gerd Petermann wrote:

I think we should only consider results of current software, means, recent maps created by Garmin or with latest versions of mkgmap and latest Garmin software (firmware or PC software).

Old but still somewhat usable devices do not receive updates any more. The very last firmware update for the Edge 705 was in 2010, almost 5 years ago.

So, if you can reproduce a case where Garmin software ignores restrictions, please post details, else I prefer to think that mkgmap is writing wrong img data.

Unfortunately I do not have the Edge 705 any more, so I cannot post details. But I think that Thorsten Kukuk posted a plausible explanation of what probably was going on.

Unfortunately it is quite complex to detect parallel roads, I already needed that for the housenumber code and found no algo.

Sure. For what it is worth, detecting parallel roads could also be useful for providing better turn instructions (copying the name of the main way to the cycleway). Best regards, Marko

Forgive me, but since routing problems are just discussed here, i also have a problem with bicycle paths: Nearly every time i leave the calculated route for car navigation and the Garmin starts to recalculate the route, it assumes, i'm driving on a bicycle way on the side of the street and it tries to reroute me on the street again at the next crossing. This is strange, since i have set the device for car routing and it tries to reroute on the street again, but nearly every time, if there is a bicycle way, it assumes, i'm on the bicycle way with my car. This does not happen, if there is no bicycle way nearby. I use the style from Ralf Kleineisel and the Garmin device is an etrex Vista HCx. This does not depend on mkgmap version, since it has always done that. Is there a way to avoid this behavior? Best regards, Uli -- View this message in context: http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/bicycle-use-sidepath-tp5852510p5852596.html Sent from the Mkgmap Development mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Hello Thorsten, no, i don't have "lock on road" enabled. I always thought, this option is only "cosmetically" changing the position of the marker onto the nearest road. Does this change the way the unit routes? Even if so and the position is nearer to the bicycle way than to the street, wouldn't it also choose the bicycle way in that case or always the road? I often use the unit for Geocaching and having this feature on is "at least" counter productive for that activity, so i keep this off. Best regards, Uli -- View this message in context: http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/bicycle-use-sidepath-tp5852510p5852601.html Sent from the Mkgmap Development mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

On Tue, Aug 18, UliBaer wrote:

Hello Thorsten,

no, i don't have "lock on road" enabled. I always thought, this option is only "cosmetically" changing the position of the marker onto the nearest road.

No, it is not "cosmetically", if you are on one road, it prevents the device from jumping to another road, at least as long as the difference isn't too big. So in your case, if the device have you on the road, it shouldn't jump anymore to the cycleway.

Does this change the way the unit routes? Even if so and the position is nearer to the bicycle way than to the street, wouldn't it also choose the bicycle way in that case or always the road?

"lock on road" follows the road. So, initially, you could be wrong. But at the moment, where you are on the correct road, and you follow the route, you will stay on the right way.

I often use the unit for Geocaching and having this feature on is "at least" counter productive for that activity, so i keep this off.

I know that problem very well ;) Thorsten -- Thorsten Kukuk, Senior Architect SLES & Common Code Base SUSE LINUX GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nuernberg, Germany GF: Felix Imendörffer, Jane Smithard, Graham Norton, HRB 21284 (AG Nürnberg)

On Mon, Aug 17, Marko Mäkelä wrote:

It might not even matter if the sidepaths have been entered and connected. For long-distance routing, I believe that the Garmin Edge 705 completely ignores cycleways for the middle section of the route. Cycleways would only be considered for the first and last 5 kilometers or so.

Since the roads in Iceland are strange, I debugged some routing "errors", where I should go a way 1000km longer then the normal way. The problem is "road_class". It looks like, that at least the Garmin GPS 62s, at the beginning prefers increasing road_classes, and later decreasing ones. But in the middle, it is avoiding going up and down. So if you reach road_class=2, and there is a short cycleway with road_class=1, and a very long primary road with road_class=3, Garmin will use the very long primary road. Even if you route for shortest distance. I workarounded this by increasing the road_class of cycleways for my style. Thorsten -- Thorsten Kukuk, Senior Architect SLES & Common Code Base SUSE LINUX GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nuernberg, Germany GF: Felix Imendörffer, Jane Smithard, Graham Norton, HRB 21284 (AG Nürnberg)