access_country for default style
Hi, Does this proposal makes sense for France ? # France (FRA) highway=trunk & mkgmap:country=FRA { add bicycle=no; add foot=no } highway=cycleway & bicycle=designated & mkgmap:country=FRA { add foot=no } highway=cycleway & mkgmap:country=FRA { set mkgmap:foot=yes; } highway=bridleway & horse=designated & mkgmap:country=FRA { add bicycle=no; add foot=no } highway=bridleway & mkgmap:country=FRA { set mkgmap:foot=yes; set mkgmap:bicycle=yes; } According to http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_tags_for_routing/Access-Restrictions#... Steph
Selon Stéphane MARTIN <st3ph.martin@laposte.net>:
Hi, Hi Stéphane, hi all
I reply to Stéphane but I think everyone should read and may reply as I have general questions.
Does this proposal makes sense for France ? According to
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_tags_for_routing/Access-Restrictions#... I don't understand this page as you do. I read this table as : which traffic mode is allowed *by default* (when the OSM way has no access tag defined, only the highway tag).
# France (FRA)
highway=trunk & mkgmap:country=FRA { add bicycle=no; add foot=no }
Correct, we can duplicate this one for motorway also.
highway=cycleway & bicycle=designated & mkgmap:country=FRA { add foot=no } highway=cycleway & mkgmap:country=FRA { set mkgmap:foot=yes; }
As I explained in the beginning, the rules are : highway=cycleway & mkgmap:country=FRA { set mkgmap:access=no; set mkgmap:bicycle=yes;} highway=cycleway & foot=yes & mkgmap:country=FRA { set mkgmap:access=no; set mkgmap:bicycle=yes; set mkgmap:foot=yes; } I don't even think the second rule is needed.
highway=bridleway & horse=designated & mkgmap:country=FRA { add bicycle=no; add foot=no } highway=bridleway & mkgmap:country=FRA { set mkgmap:foot=yes; set mkgmap:bicycle=yes; }
This one is tricky, I'm no horse rider but I think bridleways have no legal definition in France. I understand there are only paths which may be allowed to horse riders. I'd consider them as highway=path. But this should be discussed with the French OSM community, not here. So for now, let's apply the wiki table : highway=bridleway & mkgmap:country=FRA { set mkgmap:access=no; set mkgmap:horse=yes;} BTW, I don't remember mkgmap:horse exists, correct ? So what should we do with them ? Do we need to define rules for all the other highway tag values (primary, secondary, tertiary, unclassified, residential, living_street, track, footway and pedestrian) ? Are they handled by mkgmap by default ?
Steph
Paco
Hi Paco, Please check: Why do you use the tags mkgmap:horse =* and mkgmap:access=* ? They are not used in mkgmap. The img format doesn't know horses. Gerd
Date: Sat, 3 May 2014 10:00:05 +0200 From: paco.tyson@free.fr To: mkgmap-dev@lists.mkgmap.org.uk Subject: Re: [mkgmap-dev] access_country for default style
Selon Stéphane MARTIN <st3ph.martin@laposte.net>:
Hi, Hi Stéphane, hi all
I reply to Stéphane but I think everyone should read and may reply as I have general questions.
Does this proposal makes sense for France ? According to
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_tags_for_routing/Access-Restrictions#...
I don't understand this page as you do. I read this table as : which traffic mode is allowed *by default* (when the OSM way has no access tag defined, only the highway tag).
# France (FRA)
highway=trunk & mkgmap:country=FRA { add bicycle=no; add foot=no }
Correct, we can duplicate this one for motorway also.
highway=cycleway & bicycle=designated & mkgmap:country=FRA { add foot=no } highway=cycleway & mkgmap:country=FRA { set mkgmap:foot=yes; }
As I explained in the beginning, the rules are : highway=cycleway & mkgmap:country=FRA { set mkgmap:access=no; set mkgmap:bicycle=yes;} highway=cycleway & foot=yes & mkgmap:country=FRA { set mkgmap:access=no; set mkgmap:bicycle=yes; set mkgmap:foot=yes; }
I don't even think the second rule is needed.
highway=bridleway & horse=designated & mkgmap:country=FRA { add bicycle=no; add foot=no } highway=bridleway & mkgmap:country=FRA { set mkgmap:foot=yes; set mkgmap:bicycle=yes; }
This one is tricky, I'm no horse rider but I think bridleways have no legal definition in France. I understand there are only paths which may be allowed to horse riders. I'd consider them as highway=path. But this should be discussed with the French OSM community, not here. So for now, let's apply the wiki table :
highway=bridleway & mkgmap:country=FRA { set mkgmap:access=no; set mkgmap:horse=yes;}
BTW, I don't remember mkgmap:horse exists, correct ? So what should we do with them ?
Do we need to define rules for all the other highway tag values (primary, secondary, tertiary, unclassified, residential, living_street, track, footway and pedestrian) ? Are they handled by mkgmap by default ?
Steph
Paco _______________________________________________ mkgmap-dev mailing list mkgmap-dev@lists.mkgmap.org.uk http://www.mkgmap.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/mkgmap-dev
On 03.05.2014 10:16, Gerd Petermann wrote:
Hi Paco,
Please check: Why do you use the tags mkgmap:horse =* and mkgmap:access=* ? They are not used in mkgmap. The img format doesn't know horses.
Gerd well - at least mkgmap:access would be really useful... (and not as a shortcut...). I was going to write a lengthy description why finalize cannot replace it...
At least my style is still pretty badly corrupting the maps, because it's not possible with any trick to replace it's old functionality... (problems are related to continue and continue with_actions). In the end I would end up with a finalize section some hundred lines long, just in order to try to restore the old behaviour. compat_lines is only working fully for default style... I will explain that in some days if I find time, cause it's quite complicated... - the main problem is that there is no intermediate finalize. Actually to fully replace it's old behaviour I would need a complex structure of several finalize blocks. One single finalize block at the end doesn't help me at all. Is it possible to have several finalize sections - and each subsequent only finalizes the lines in between the last finalize? Furthermore, I still think mkgmap:access is the most important key, I'm not so sure which mkgmap:bicycle,foot,.... key Basecamp v4 actually interprets and in which profile. Needs some testing now that is supposedly works... mgmap:horse of course makes no sense..
On 03.05.2014 10:16, Gerd Petermann wrote:
Hi Paco,
Please check: Why do you use the tags mkgmap:horse =* and mkgmap:access=* ? They are not used in mkgmap. The img format doesn't know horses.
Gerd well - at least mkgmap:access would be really useful... (and not as a shortcut...). I was going to write a lengthy description why finalize cannot replace it...
At least my style is still pretty badly corrupting the maps, because it's not possible with any trick to replace it's old functionality... (problems are related to continue and continue with_actions). In the end I would end up with a finalize section some hundred lines long, just in order to try to restore the old behaviour. compat_lines is only working fully for default style... I will explain that in some days if I find time, cause it's quite complicated... - the main problem is that there is no intermediate finalize. Actually to fully replace it's old behaviour I would need a complex structure of several finalize blocks. One single finalize block at the end doesn't help me at all. Is it possible to have several finalize sections - and each subsequent only finalizes the lines in between the last finalize?
Furthermore, I still think mkgmap:access is the most important key, I'm not so sure which mkgmap:bicycle,foot,.... key Basecamp v4 actually interprets and in which profile. Needs some testing now that is supposedly works...
mgmap:horse of course makes no sense..
Felix, if you need mkgmap:access you can add it yourself and add the rule mkgmap:access=* { addaccess ${mkgmap:access} } to your finalize section. If that doesn't help please post a short and understandable example why it is required. WanMil
Paco wrote
# France (FRA)
highway=trunk & mkgmap:country=FRA { add bicycle=no; add foot=no }
Correct, we can duplicate this one for motorway also.
Motorways already get { add bicycle=no; add foot=no } so for motorways it is not needed to add another rule for France. Same for all other highways, only if they are different than the mkgmap style, we need to add those rules.
Hi Paco, It seems that there is no consensus for the French OSM community: http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/Acces-de-certaines-voies-en-France-td5804000.... Furthermore, I'm realizing that "designated" can be associated with an other "designated" or with an other tag important for routing. Therefore, permissive rules would be better here and some restrictions can be added, e.g. in "lines", depending the wanted routing. # France (FRA) highway=trunk & mkgmap:country=FRA { add bicycle=no; add foot=no } highway=cycleway & mkgmap:country=FRA { add foot=yes } highway=bridleway & mkgmap:country=FRA { add bicycle=yes; add foot=yes } Do you agree with that ? Steph Le 03/05/2014 05:00, paco.tyson@free.fr a écrit :
Selon Stéphane MARTIN <st3ph.martin@laposte.net>:
Hi, Hi Stéphane, hi all
I reply to Stéphane but I think everyone should read and may reply as I have general questions.
Does this proposal makes sense for France ? According to
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_tags_for_routing/Access-Restrictions#...
I don't understand this page as you do. I read this table as : which traffic mode is allowed *by default* (when the OSM way has no access tag defined, only the highway tag).
# France (FRA)
highway=trunk & mkgmap:country=FRA { add bicycle=no; add foot=no }
Correct, we can duplicate this one for motorway also.
highway=cycleway & bicycle=designated & mkgmap:country=FRA { add foot=no } highway=cycleway & mkgmap:country=FRA { set mkgmap:foot=yes; }
As I explained in the beginning, the rules are : highway=cycleway & mkgmap:country=FRA { set mkgmap:access=no; set mkgmap:bicycle=yes;} highway=cycleway & foot=yes & mkgmap:country=FRA { set mkgmap:access=no; set mkgmap:bicycle=yes; set mkgmap:foot=yes; }
I don't even think the second rule is needed.
highway=bridleway & horse=designated & mkgmap:country=FRA { add bicycle=no; add foot=no } highway=bridleway & mkgmap:country=FRA { set mkgmap:foot=yes; set mkgmap:bicycle=yes; }
This one is tricky, I'm no horse rider but I think bridleways have no legal definition in France. I understand there are only paths which may be allowed to horse riders. I'd consider them as highway=path. But this should be discussed with the French OSM community, not here. So for now, let's apply the wiki table :
highway=bridleway & mkgmap:country=FRA { set mkgmap:access=no; set mkgmap:horse=yes;}
BTW, I don't remember mkgmap:horse exists, correct ? So what should we do with them ?
Do we need to define rules for all the other highway tag values (primary, secondary, tertiary, unclassified, residential, living_street, track, footway and pedestrian) ? Are they handled by mkgmap by default ?
Selon Stéphane MARTIN <st3ph.martin@laposte.net>:
Hi Paco,
Hi Stéphane,
It seems that there is no consensus for the French OSM community:
http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/Acces-de-certaines-voies-en-France-td5804000.... I read this thread, I think there's too much misunderstanding and offtopic issues to get something meaningful out of it.
Furthermore, I'm realizing that "designated" can be associated with an other "designated" or with an other tag important for routing.
I think you nailed it, much of the misunderstanding and our disagreement comes from this tag. I understand the key designated as : this way has been made specifically for this vehicle, it should be used in priority before the surrounding ones. What do you think designated is used for ? Following this definition, a way tagged with (highway=bridleway & horse=designated) has redundancy because a bridleway is, by definition, made specifically for horses.
Therefore, permissive rules would be better here and some restrictions can be added, e.g. in "lines", depending the wanted routing.
# France (FRA)
highway=trunk & mkgmap:country=FRA { add bicycle=no; add foot=no }
Agree
highway=cycleway & mkgmap:country=FRA { add foot=yes } Disagree. In French law, a cycleway is not allowed to pedestrians unless signed otherwise. highway=cycleway & mkgmap:country=FRA { add foot=no } (if this rule is not already applied by default in mkgmap, I don't know the default ones, are they posted somewhere ?)
highway=bridleway & mkgmap:country=FRA { add bicycle=yes; add foot=yes } Agree
Of course, these rules are to be applied at the beginning of the mkgmap processing so a superseding attribute (for example foot=yes for a cycleway) can be applied correctly.
Do you agree with that ?
Steph
Le 03/05/2014 05:00, paco.tyson@free.fr a écrit :
Selon Stéphane MARTIN <st3ph.martin@laposte.net>:
Hi, Hi Stéphane, hi all
I reply to Stéphane but I think everyone should read and may reply as I have general questions.
Does this proposal makes sense for France ? According to
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_tags_for_routing/Access-Restrictions#...
I don't understand this page as you do. I read this table as : which
traffic
mode is allowed *by default* (when the OSM way has no access tag defined, only the highway tag).
# France (FRA)
highway=trunk & mkgmap:country=FRA { add bicycle=no; add foot=no }
Correct, we can duplicate this one for motorway also.
highway=cycleway & bicycle=designated & mkgmap:country=FRA { add foot=no } highway=cycleway & mkgmap:country=FRA { set mkgmap:foot=yes; }
As I explained in the beginning, the rules are : highway=cycleway & mkgmap:country=FRA { set mkgmap:access=no; set mkgmap:bicycle=yes;} highway=cycleway & foot=yes & mkgmap:country=FRA { set mkgmap:access=no; set mkgmap:bicycle=yes; set mkgmap:foot=yes; }
I don't even think the second rule is needed.
highway=bridleway & horse=designated & mkgmap:country=FRA { add bicycle=no; add foot=no } highway=bridleway & mkgmap:country=FRA { set mkgmap:foot=yes; set mkgmap:bicycle=yes; }
This one is tricky, I'm no horse rider but I think bridleways have no legal definition in France. I understand there are only paths which may be allowed to horse riders. I'd consider them as highway=path. But this should be discussed with the French OSM community, not here. So for now, let's apply the wiki table :
highway=bridleway & mkgmap:country=FRA { set mkgmap:access=no; set mkgmap:horse=yes;}
BTW, I don't remember mkgmap:horse exists, correct ? So what should we do with them ?
Do we need to define rules for all the other highway tag values (primary, secondary, tertiary, unclassified, residential, living_street, track, footway and pedestrian) ? Are they handled by mkgmap by default ?
_______________________________________________ mkgmap-dev mailing list mkgmap-dev@lists.mkgmap.org.uk http://www.mkgmap.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/mkgmap-dev
Hi Paco, paco.tyson wrote
highway=cycleway & mkgmap:country=FRA { add foot=yes } highway=cycleway & mkgmap:country=FRA { add foot=no } (if this rule is not already applied by default in mkgmap, I don't know the default ones, are they posted somewhere ?)
The default style is part of the mkgmap package, you can find it in mkgmap-r????\examples\styles\default But it is only used if you don't specify another one with --style-file. Gerd -- View this message in context: http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/access-country-for-default-style-tp5804979p58... Sent from the Mkgmap Development mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
participants (7)
-
Felix Hartmann -
Gerd Petermann -
GerdP
-
Minko -
paco.tyson＠free.fr -
Stéphane MARTIN -
WanMil