address search and the --lower-case option
Hi all, during the last days I tried to find a solution for the problem that my Oregon is (often) not able to find road names which contain "ß" , like "Außer Ort" or "Büßlinger Straße". If I search for Au the name "Außer Ort" is listed among many others, but when I type Auß the device says that something like "not found, change search criteria". When I type "Auss" it is also not found. This problem only occurs when I build the map with option --lower-case, without that option the name is safed as "Ausser Ort" and search works without problems. I found one work around : A change in the resources file resources\sort\cp1252.txt allows to search for ß when --lower-case is used but will not work without that option. Now I wonder if anybody has a map which contains the names like Außer Ort and is able to search this name typing Auß ? Gerd
Hi Gerd, what have you changed in cp1252.txt? I guess you could add "ß" as primary ordering strengths or as secondary after "s". Maybe secondary would work on upper-case too? Or maybe problem with upper-case is that mkgmap doesn't expand "ß", when it is defined as primary/secondary? Could it be corrected, so expansion is done regardless of primary content? What about "µ", wouldn't labels with this character cause problems too? -- Best regards, Andrzej
Hi Andrzej, see attached patch. One detail was wrong in my previous post: The name "Außer Ort" is converted to "AUSSER ORT" using the Java method String.toUpperCase(Locale.ENGLISH) so that result doesn't depend on the used --charset option or the --unicode / --latin1. I've seen that Garmin maps use a different approach, they contain e.g. HAUPTSTRAßE" and the rendered map shows "Hauptstraße" and search also works. I did not yet try other special characters which expand to two or more characters. Gerd ________________________________________ Von: mkgmap-dev <mkgmap-dev-bounces@lists.mkgmap.org.uk> im Auftrag von Andrzej Popowski <popej@poczta.onet.pl> Gesendet: Dienstag, 25. April 2017 18:26:09 An: mkgmap-dev@lists.mkgmap.org.uk Betreff: Re: [mkgmap-dev] address search and the --lower-case option Hi Gerd, what have you changed in cp1252.txt? I guess you could add "ß" as primary ordering strengths or as secondary after "s". Maybe secondary would work on upper-case too? Or maybe problem with upper-case is that mkgmap doesn't expand "ß", when it is defined as primary/secondary? Could it be corrected, so expansion is done regardless of primary content? What about "µ", wouldn't labels with this character cause problems too? -- Best regards, Andrzej _______________________________________________ mkgmap-dev mailing list mkgmap-dev@lists.mkgmap.org.uk http://www.mkgmap.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/mkgmap-dev
Hi Gerd, if mkgmap converts "ß" tp "SS" when using upper-case, then your change to cp1252.txt is good for both cases, isn't it? I can see "ß" on Unicode version of City Navigator, but non-Unicode uses "ss" instead. The same for demo version of Topo DE 2012, it is cp1252 and uses "SS". Maybe this is a good solution? -- Best regards, Andrzej
Hi Andrzej, thanks for the info. I am not sure if my change gives the correct sort seqence, I have to try that. One question is why we have option --lower-case. My understanding is that we don't want a map that shows Geissweg when OSM and the street signs say Geißweg. I assume there are similar cases in other languages, too. The character µ is a minor problem as it appears only a few times compared to ß, which appears very often in German road names. It is also confusing when the device shows Geißweg but a search for Geiß doesn't show the way. By the way, I have this problem also with unicode maps on my Oregon. What bothers me is what the device does with my search value (at least with an unpatched cp-1252.txt) : When the search field is empty, it shows a key board with upper case characters A-Z ÄÖÜ and ß. When I start to type Außer it switches to lower case after the A. When I press the "check" symbol (v-shape in lower right corner) it shows the screen "no results found. Change search criteria". When I go back to the dialog it shows AUßER, so it somehow thinks that the value has to be changed to upper case. I wonder if this also happens with maps from Garmin, if not, there is probably a flag somewhere to say if that is wanted or not. Gerd ________________________________________ Von: mkgmap-dev <mkgmap-dev-bounces@lists.mkgmap.org.uk> im Auftrag von Andrzej Popowski <popej@poczta.onet.pl> Gesendet: Dienstag, 25. April 2017 21:50:47 An: mkgmap-dev@lists.mkgmap.org.uk Betreff: Re: [mkgmap-dev] address search and the --lower-case option Hi Gerd, if mkgmap converts "ß" tp "SS" when using upper-case, then your change to cp1252.txt is good for both cases, isn't it? I can see "ß" on Unicode version of City Navigator, but non-Unicode uses "ss" instead. The same for demo version of Topo DE 2012, it is cp1252 and uses "SS". Maybe this is a good solution? -- Best regards, Andrzej _______________________________________________ mkgmap-dev mailing list mkgmap-dev@lists.mkgmap.org.uk http://www.mkgmap.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/mkgmap-dev
Hmm, the longer I try to understand the more confused I am :( I've learned now that a line like expand ß to s s in sort/cp1252.txt really seems to tell the Garmin software that the ß is a replacement for ss. When I change it to ß m m and compile a map Mapsource finds shows Immelmannstraße when I type Iß , so I think this is ensured. Still, the search is done wtih some kind of "ignore case" algorithm which probably also uses the content The SRT file (which is compiled using the content of cp152.txt) contains further information which says how to sort this "expanded" character, so it is not completely equivalent (Strasse comes before Straße) What I don't understand is this: How can it work in combination with --lower-case? My understanding is that we need two very different files, one that is used for upper case maps (the default if no --lower-case option is given) and another one that has no expand rules but places the special characters when they should belong when sorting. I also think that the conversion to upper case in mkgmap should be done using the content of the given codepage instead of the constant Locale.english. Does that make sense? Gerd ________________________________________ Von: mkgmap-dev <mkgmap-dev-bounces@lists.mkgmap.org.uk> im Auftrag von Gerd Petermann <GPetermann_muenchen@hotmail.com> Gesendet: Dienstag, 25. April 2017 22:24:05 An: Development list for mkgmap Betreff: Re: [mkgmap-dev] address search and the --lower-case option Hi Andrzej, thanks for the info. I am not sure if my change gives the correct sort seqence, I have to try that. One question is why we have option --lower-case. My understanding is that we don't want a map that shows Geissweg when OSM and the street signs say Geißweg. I assume there are similar cases in other languages, too. The character µ is a minor problem as it appears only a few times compared to ß, which appears very often in German road names. It is also confusing when the device shows Geißweg but a search for Geiß doesn't show the way. By the way, I have this problem also with unicode maps on my Oregon. What bothers me is what the device does with my search value (at least with an unpatched cp-1252.txt) : When the search field is empty, it shows a key board with upper case characters A-Z ÄÖÜ and ß. When I start to type Außer it switches to lower case after the A. When I press the "check" symbol (v-shape in lower right corner) it shows the screen "no results found. Change search criteria". When I go back to the dialog it shows AUßER, so it somehow thinks that the value has to be changed to upper case. I wonder if this also happens with maps from Garmin, if not, there is probably a flag somewhere to say if that is wanted or not. Gerd ________________________________________ Von: mkgmap-dev <mkgmap-dev-bounces@lists.mkgmap.org.uk> im Auftrag von Andrzej Popowski <popej@poczta.onet.pl> Gesendet: Dienstag, 25. April 2017 21:50:47 An: mkgmap-dev@lists.mkgmap.org.uk Betreff: Re: [mkgmap-dev] address search and the --lower-case option Hi Gerd, if mkgmap converts "ß" tp "SS" when using upper-case, then your change to cp1252.txt is good for both cases, isn't it? I can see "ß" on Unicode version of City Navigator, but non-Unicode uses "ss" instead. The same for demo version of Topo DE 2012, it is cp1252 and uses "SS". Maybe this is a good solution? -- Best regards, Andrzej _______________________________________________ mkgmap-dev mailing list mkgmap-dev@lists.mkgmap.org.uk http://www.mkgmap.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/mkgmap-dev _______________________________________________ mkgmap-dev mailing list mkgmap-dev@lists.mkgmap.org.uk http://www.mkgmap.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/mkgmap-dev
Hi Gerd, could it be, that labels contain all characters including "ß" while index contain only upper-case and expanded versions? This would make searching easier, GPS would have to convert input name using SRT when searching but can display proper name in results. Interesting is, that SRT subfile can be added to a tile and to index. I don't like idea of 2 different sorts for lower- and upper-case. There are 2 different cp1252 in Garmin maps, but as far as i know the second version (not compatible with some old devices) expands "ae" and some underscores/dashes. If you'd like to look at some Garmin maps, there are demo version still available for download: http://static.garmin.com/shared/de/custom/topod2012/testversion/TopoD2012pro... http://static.garmin.com/shared/de/custom/topod2012/testversion/GarminTransA... http://www.garmin-download.de/web/tuerkei/gmapsupp.img -- Best regards, Andrzej
Hi Andrzej, I am now downloading the TopoD2012 map, I already looked at the other two. The solution in Transalpin2012Pro seems to be this: Store the names in upper case, but keep ß as is. So Hauptstraße ist stored as HAUPTSTRAßE. Mapsource and Basecamp show Hauptstraße , but my Oregon shows HAUPTSTRAßE when search for "Ha". This would not be that bad, but it looks ugly when searching for "W" and the list shows Waigmann WALCHENSEESSTRAßE Waldeck ... Means, it converts those names to mixed case where it doesn't find the ß. Search for "Hauptstraß" doesn't work, so this is no solution. In TopoD2012 names are also converted to upper case, but Hauptstraße ist stored as HAUPTSTRASSE. The device shows it as Hauptstrasse and the search for "Hauptstraß" shows Hauptstrasse (as expected), as well as the search for "Hauptstrass" So, this is what mkgmap produces without the --lower-case option. It is not nice because it doesn't show the ß, but it works. I did not yet see a Garmin map which stores labels in mixed case, at least not with formats that allow to browse the names. So, for now, I think the option --lower-case is simply not a good idea for maps of Germany. Gerd ________________________________________ Von: mkgmap-dev <mkgmap-dev-bounces@lists.mkgmap.org.uk> im Auftrag von Andrzej Popowski <popej@poczta.onet.pl> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 27. April 2017 11:21:38 An: mkgmap-dev@lists.mkgmap.org.uk Betreff: Re: [mkgmap-dev] address search and the --lower-case option Hi Gerd, could it be, that labels contain all characters including "ß" while index contain only upper-case and expanded versions? This would make searching easier, GPS would have to convert input name using SRT when searching but can display proper name in results. Interesting is, that SRT subfile can be added to a tile and to index. I don't like idea of 2 different sorts for lower- and upper-case. There are 2 different cp1252 in Garmin maps, but as far as i know the second version (not compatible with some old devices) expands "ae" and some underscores/dashes. If you'd like to look at some Garmin maps, there are demo version still available for download: http://static.garmin.com/shared/de/custom/topod2012/testversion/TopoD2012pro... http://static.garmin.com/shared/de/custom/topod2012/testversion/GarminTransA... http://www.garmin-download.de/web/tuerkei/gmapsupp.img -- Best regards, Andrzej _______________________________________________ mkgmap-dev mailing list mkgmap-dev@lists.mkgmap.org.uk http://www.mkgmap.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/mkgmap-dev
Hi Gerd, some time ago I maintained a list of commercial maps available for download. I don't update it anymore, but maybe you could find something interesting there: http://www.garniak.pl/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=398 Personally I don't use lower-case in my map. It leads to problems in some older GPS where lower case characters are displayed as underscore. Pity it is default setting in mkgmap. -- Best regards, Andrzej
Hi Andrzej, thanks for the link, I'll have a look later. One correction: lower-case is not the default, it is only used if you use option --lower-case. Gerd ________________________________________ Von: mkgmap-dev <mkgmap-dev-bounces@lists.mkgmap.org.uk> im Auftrag von Andrzej Popowski <popej@poczta.onet.pl> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 27. April 2017 14:15:05 An: mkgmap-dev@lists.mkgmap.org.uk Betreff: Re: [mkgmap-dev] address search and the --lower-case option Hi Gerd, some time ago I maintained a list of commercial maps available for download. I don't update it anymore, but maybe you could find something interesting there: http://www.garniak.pl/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=398 Personally I don't use lower-case in my map. It leads to problems in some older GPS where lower case characters are displayed as underscore. Pity it is default setting in mkgmap. -- Best regards, Andrzej _______________________________________________ mkgmap-dev mailing list mkgmap-dev@lists.mkgmap.org.uk http://www.mkgmap.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/mkgmap-dev
participants (2)
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Andrzej Popowski -
Gerd Petermann